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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To tell my daughter to hit back.

92 replies

NacMacFeeglie · 28/08/2014 16:58

We are in a temporary flat at the moment and my daughter plays with a group of kids here. One lad plays in the group and has taken a liking to hitting my daughter. He has punched her in the back. Hit her in the face. And kicked her in the ribs when she was tying her shoe lace as witnessed by the other children who all confirm she had done nothing to him.

With this latest one I decided it was time to see the mother. Usually I don't get involved but she was badly bruised and winded.

The mother immediately bit my head off and tried to tell me my daughter had two older boys hit her son. My daughter doesn't know any older boys at all or goes anywhere older boys would be. I told her that my daughter was the one with the bruises and that talking to the other children her son was the instigator. She called my daughter and I bitches and shut the door in my face.

I will not tell me daughter she is not to play with her friends because of this lad. So I have told her the next time he touches her she has my full permission to hit him back. This is not something I advocate but this is a rough area sadly and with the mother unapproachable I'm not sure what else I can do.

OP posts:

SaucyJack · 28/08/2014 20:01

Hypothetically speaking, I think it's fine to give your kids permission to defend themselves.

But don't put any too much stock in children's karate lessons. Both of my girls do them with SAMA- as do a lot of their friends. It's just a bit of fun tho- I doubt any of them could fight their way out of a carrier bag if push came to shove (badum tsch)

MrsItsNoworNotatAll · 28/08/2014 20:16

I did karate when I was at school. I reached Back belt. I kept it quiet but it eventually came out when one of the other kids from my school joined the lessons I attended. From time to time I was challenged to a fight but no one was willing to throw the first punch and of course I wasn't going to and besides it just wasn't and still isn't in my nature to start fights. I was quietly confident that I could easily have beaten one of those idiots into the ground had I needed too but I never had to thankfully. It wouldn't have ended well for them.

Poofus · 28/08/2014 20:32

Could you contact the child's school, perhaps? If the parents won't deal with their son beating up other children, perhaps his teachers will.

ModreB · 28/08/2014 20:36

I had this with 2 x DS, who were both being assaulted in the playground and after school. I complained about bullying seperately, by 2 children (2 of my DS'ss) who were classed as having "anger management issues". And this is what I told the Headteacher.

If my child is being attacked, they are allowed to defend themselves. As would you if you were assaulted on the street by a stranger.

If that defence results in an injury to the other child, then they shouldn't
have been attacking him.

If they are all over 10yo, call the police.

If the mother wont supervise, call the police.

I told DS's, if you cant attract the attention of an adult, hit first and explain later.

YANBU.

Original poster

NacMacFeeglie · 28/08/2014 20:43

They are eight and in Scotland. Karate or not I am sure my daughter can sort him out. We play fight sometimes and she really goes for it. She wants to stand up for herself and I won't tell her not to when I can't do anything to protect her. We will see what occurs over the next few days. Given that the boy was shouting abuse at me when walking away from his flat I suspect he thinks he is untouchable after speaking to his mum.

He's in for a shock.

OP posts:

Tikimon · 28/08/2014 20:50

I have never understood how parents can tell a kid that when they are hit, kicked etc that they must just take it, no matter how much it hurts.

I think most parents, myself included tell kids if they get hit, come get an adult and they'll settle it. Otherwise, you get the scenario I had to deal with the other night watching two siblings. One hit, the other hit back and it escalated to screaming and tears in less than a minute (really they're dramatic, but not the point). Most child fights are like that, I'd rather they come talk to me instead of hitting each other and learn better problem solving skills.

That said, I'll probably give my child the same rule my parents gave me. If she's getting bullied, she needs to tell me, the school principal, and the teacher that it's happening around. If no one does anything, she is welcome to pummel the person.

WorraLiberty · 28/08/2014 20:51

You mean he might be in for a shock

Or your DD might be in for a shock

This is what many people are trying to say

Tikimon · 28/08/2014 20:52

Given that the boy was shouting abuse at me when walking away from his flat I suspect he thinks he is untouchable after speaking to his mum.

He's in for a shock.

I'm a bit concerned about this attitude. It's one thing to want your daughter to defend herself. It's another to want the boy to get hurt to "put him in his place".

What if it doesn't make him back down? What if it makes him more aggressive?

What if he wins the fight and is even more cocky?

SeptemberFlowers · 28/08/2014 20:56

You've tried going to the mother and it hasn't worked. Given that you are confident in your own daughters abilities to hit back, then yes I would have told my dc to do the same thing. Mine all know that as long as they are NOT the ones to hit first but it was done in defense then they have my full support.

With any luck the little scroat will learn not to do it again.

Original poster

NacMacFeeglie · 28/08/2014 20:57

Don't be ridiculous tiki, I don't want anyone to get hurt. Ive been very tolerant of the fact he's been hurting my daughter however today he badly hurt her ribs.

I can't involve a school they go to different ones. This happens out with school hours. She has told me and I have spoken to the mother who was completely unreasonable and abusive. I won't ban my child from playing out or stop her from playing with her friends because he may be there. I can't supervise often due to having younger children to watch and things in the house needing done.

He IS in for a shock. Because my daughter hasn't hit back before. Not because I would get some sort of pleasure out of it

OP posts:

MrsItsNoworNotatAll · 28/08/2014 21:06

You are nicer person than me NacMac cos I always laugh when the little shitbag on this street goes in screeching when someone's retaliated and he's come off worse. Serves him bloody right.

Nomama · 28/08/2014 21:11

Tikimon, it might have made more sense had you put that sentence in the context in which I wrote it rather than cropping it to say something a little bit different than I meant...

And I don't think it is always possible to get to an adult. Kids of 8+ often play when parents are put, shopping, at work etc. So your scenario would require one of those helicopter mums to be hovering somewhere convenient.

And at some point kids have to learn to be independent, self directed people. 8 isn't too young for that. And personal safety/space is a really good thing to have autonomy over.

Tikimon · 28/08/2014 21:30

(I knew what you were saying, I was pointing out that I'd rather them get an adult than hit back as their go to solution.)

I think 8 is too young to not at least have some adult within ear shot. You're not allowed to leave an 8 year old home alone, so the parents (or friend's parents) have to be somewhere close by. When I let the kids I watch outside, if I'm indoors, I keep the windows open and I make sure they're nearby so if they get hurt I can get to them quickly.

When I take kids to the playground I just sit outside and let them solve things themselves and test their limits on the equipment without me telling them to stop. Scraped knees and bumped heads are better teachers than "no no". But I'm still nearby without taking away their independence in case they need a band aid or something.

Nomama · 28/08/2014 21:37

You can leave an 8 year old home alone... there is no age limit in UK law. You can't leave them if it puts them at risk (the NSPCC recommends 12, but that isn't the law)... and that is also out of context, I wasn't talking solely about being left at home, in context we are talking about playing without adult supervision.

I disagree with you. 8 is fine to play out alone.

Original poster

NacMacFeeglie · 28/08/2014 21:48

I would say it depends on the child. I live in a block of flats and they okay out the back or the sides or the front. Windows are usually open. However I am top floor so it will take time to get to her should she need me.

My five and six year old also play out and I'm fine with that too. The children around here for the most are very close and are regularly in my flat or mine in others playing with each other. Sleep overs too.

The problem lies with this lad and my daughter. She is very bright very pretty and very much a tomboy. She generally is a very sociable girl and very loving towards her friends and her younger brothers.

Our flat although temporary I have made very nice and we are the only people in the block to have internet which I let others in the block share.

What I am trying to say is that I'm not sure if it's perhaps some jealousy with this lad. Or that his mother and him think that we think we are too good to be living here. I don't know but I don't know why he has an issue with my daughter.

This is all new to me. I was brought up in a tiny village with only a handful of children. My school only had nine pupils. I've never had to deal with children fighting and other mothers etc. living here was very difficult at first until I got used to the dynamics and now I like it. I just don't like what's going on with my dd.

I don't feel there are many other options I can present her with to help her with her problem. I believe she would be able to deal with this lad. She just needed to know it's okay to do so.

OP posts:

WorraLiberty · 28/08/2014 22:14

You let your 5 and 6yr old play out too in a rough area, despite knowing it can take time to get to them from your top floor flat?

Original poster

NacMacFeeglie · 28/08/2014 22:46

Yes I do. They play out at their friends house and garden. Though they are under the supervision of their friends father. Sometimes they play out the back of the flats on the grass too but I can see them from my kitchen window. They are never on their own. They play with the other children. I'm comfortable with that.

OP posts:

Original poster

NacMacFeeglie · 28/08/2014 22:48

As I said earlier the other children Barr the lad that sticks up for my dd are a bit younger, fives, sixes and sevens.

OP posts:

OfaFrenchMind · 28/08/2014 22:49

She is 8, so is he. At this age, the physical difference between boys and girls is next to 0, so if she can defend herself, she should. And teach him a valuable lesson :)
I remember at this age, if a boy tried to bother me, he would get a good hit back, and not come back for more.

Mind you, sadly, I would not give you the same advice if she was, say, 16.

Dontgotosleep · 28/08/2014 22:56

Report it. You've tried to reason with the mother and you got abuse. Can't say I'm surprised tbh though. This can not go on. It is abuse and you and your d.d do not have to put up with it.
God pitty the poor women or man who end up with him in the future, because with a mother who thinks it's okay for her son to hit a girl then'll grow into a brute. May be I am old fashioned but under no circumstances should a boy hit a girl. I haven't been blessed with a son but if my nephew hit a girl myself dsis dbil ect would be mortified.

WorraLiberty · 28/08/2014 23:16

May be I am old fashioned but under no circumstances should a boy hit a girl

What if she's kicking the shit out of him?

Terrierterror · 28/08/2014 23:23

Isn't the age of criminal responsibility in Scotland 8? If she hurt him your DD could be in serious trouble.

SistersOfPercy · 28/08/2014 23:45

Op, when I was the same she as your daughter I was relentlessly bullied by one girl. My mum told me to hit back but I never really dared until one day I reached my limit and socked her right in the mouth.
Oh she poured of blood, looked quite dramatic . She never bothered me again.

I told both my kids to hit back. Ignore at first but if it carries on retaliate. I don't think yabu at all.

Snapespotions · 29/08/2014 00:09

Let's put it this way. Imagine for a moment these are adults. What would you say to her? Would you tell her to try and protect herself or to continue to be a punching bag. Sometimes walking away isn't the only answer.

If someone kicked or punched me, I most certainly would not fight back. I would call the police and report the fact that I had been assaulted. It would be irresponsible to put myself at greater risk by initiating more violence.

I think it's too risky to tell her to hit back. What if this kid produced a knife or something? Yes, I know he's only 8 but it does happen.

The OP says her dd was left "badly bruised and winded" as the result of an unprovoked attack. I don't think this is the sort of squabble that 8yos can be left to sort out by themselves tbh.

The OP has tried the obvious route of trying to talk to the perpetrator's parents, but it didn't work. Time to involve the police.

however · 29/08/2014 01:28

I'm not necessarily against retaliating, when it comes to young kids, and I can see your point that maybe she would win the scuffle then but it might not necessarily be over.

Problem is, he'll possibly ambush her next time if he is the nasty little kid he seems to be. So perhaps the police would be the best bet.

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