to start a new Scottish Indyref thread?

[FannyFifer]

Round 2 folks, ding ding!

Useful account of Gaelic in the Lowlands ( and the northern isles!)here.

Yes, its a problem with some academic fields - they refuse to consider evidence from other fields, such as architectural finds, or genetics.

What don't you understand about genes and alleles? Its basic human biology. There are certain mutations at points on the human genome that create "markers" that are associated with certain populations.

Yes, but you can't correlate those markers with linguistic or cultural markers. Or archaeology.

But what I don't get is why the focus on one relatively short period of Scottish history when Gaelic was more widely spoken?

Because on that basis, you would be putting far more money into Norn as it was spoken in Shetland until relatively recent times, and is a recognised language. But its not as fashionable as Gaelic and tartan for some reason. Alternatively, you could promote Anglo-Saxon links more, as middle English was at one time prominently used in certain parts of Scotland. Or how about Old Norse? We all know what a bairn is after all. Its arguably still in use, and certain of the north east dialects sound as if they are still using it!

Yes, but you can't correlate those markers with linguistic or cultural markers. Or archaeology

Yes, I agree its a recognised criticism of current linguistic study that it encourages ignoring other evidence. But linguistics in itself doesn't really provide sufficient evidence to prove much at all, so why use it "prove" that Gaelic should now be more widespread in Scotland because it suits a political cause. To me that is dishonest.

I thought the Celts were recorded as having travelled over the Alps from Southern Europe, and that this was relatively well known? So why would this theory of related languages from such parts of the world be discredited?

A professional practicing CelticistWhat the feck is a professional practicing Celticist, outside academia, and does it have a practical application?

Um, Chelsy/LessMissAbs, whatever you're going by today, academia is a profession. Why should Bugger's work have any use outside of it? It doesn't need to. She's well qualified enough (and clearly more qualified to discuss her field of study than you).

Seriously, when the referendum is over, you should maybe take a holiday. All this pompous snorting and vehemently disagreeing with anyone who doesn't think Scotland is a stinking 'jobs for the boys' cesspool can't be good for your blood pressure.

Some interesting names on the CBI mark two list.

This is a good ad though for example, certainly less patronising toward women.

It was so dull I gave up half way through. . A dreary bunch of women preaching in such over-stated Scottish accents

Sounds like a normal variety of Scottish accents from a variety of normal Scottish women. Shocking!

The Scottish cringe is strong in this one.

The Opposition (of whatever colour) doesn't go away and hide for the 5-7 years that the Government is in power. It holds it to account - and we, as the voting population, should also continue to hold both the government and the opposition to account.

That spectacularly misses the point that if the nats get their way there is no going back is there? It will be triumphalist gloating and full steam ahead for the Socialist People's Democratic Republic of Alba.

Not if the people of Scotland vote otherwise in May 2016.

So Fanny only people with Scottish accents are worth listening to ? Every one in Scotland has (must have? ) a Scottish accent? Why labour that point ?

Couple of people with English accents in that ad as well by the way so no idea whit you on about.

But no a Scottish accent is nothing to be ashamed of.

And that is absolutely not what I said, get a grip.

You were the one who mentioned the accents.

I took Fanny's post to mean that the accents were normal and not overstated. I have English family in Scotland who are voting Yes, accent/where you're from isn't an issue.

Possibly they appeared after I gave up as it was so dull. Not clear what point it was trying to make beyond "us wummin are important" as if that isn't patronising

The accents are fine to my ear but I do think it's very patronising about women's participation in politics!

It's the sort of thing that relates to my Mum's generation (in her 80s) where she repeated a so called compliment with pride "You've a good grasp of politics for a woman!" Tbh I was brought up in politics and have been avoiding its partisan thinking ever since I reached adulthood..

Can I ask a couple of questions for the No voters on this thread?

What are the tangible positive reasons for staying part of the UK? (Apart from the myriad disasters that won't befall Scotland)

The BT parties say they guarantee new powers for Scotland in the event of a No vote. What specifically are these powers, and how can they possibly guarantee them?

I am English so have no vested interest in how the vote goes, but given the level of vitriol spewed out by BOTH sides of the debate I wonder how Scotland will pull together after the vote.

Seems to me to be pretty much 50/50 ATM - at least looks like no large majority winner.

If it is a close call how do you Scots think the "losing" side will react? If the No vote wins will the Yes people accept it and let it drop for a few years, or will the capaigning just start up all over again?

TBH I feel that either way Scotland is going to have some major problems after the result is announced, with each side blaming the other.

But women are underrepresented in politics that's a fact.

how can they possibly guarantee them?

Are you doubting David Cameron's word?

I haven't said anything about which way people should vote - I've just said that the fact people are engaged in the process - from both sides - should be celebrated and not feared.

But maybe I come from a different perspective: I believe that politics do make a difference to people's lives abd that people should be intetested. South Africa is a prime example. The Whites there had a vote to allow a universal franchise. There was no going back from that either.

I do abhor the shouty politics that we suffer from though. In my a Utopian state, politicians would actually work together for the common good (which they did during WWII) and not argue that black is white . There again, in my a Utopian state, the very act of wanting to be a politician should automatically disqualify you from the role . It should be like jury service - an obligation to fulfill the role and 'cos its only for a set period, you'd have to try to leave things in as good or better a situation as when you started.

itsall would it be worth adding a third - not best sure how to word it. For me, proud to be Scottish and British, staying the same is a benefit. A strong devolved parliament but remaining in the UK is my preferred choice.

There again, in my a Utopian state, the very act of wanting to be a politician should automatically disqualify you from the role grin. It should be like jury service - an obligation to fulfill the role and 'cos its only for a set period, you'd have to try to leave things in as good or better a situation as when you started.

Now that I complete agree with!

80%+ turnout is pretty incredible