to start a new Scottish Indyref thread?

[FannyFifer]

Round 2 folks, ding ding!

You can understand Irish Gaelic as well, it's similar enough.

I heard an interesting comment today on the radio. A previous no voter had decided to vote yes. His reason was that he thought that Scotland,- even in the event of a no vote was going to be ' punished' by Westminister for having the audacity to want to go it alone, so his reasoning was that he may as well vote yes..

Thought it was an interesting way of looking at it, whether there is any truth in his assumption, I have no idea!

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_road_signs_in_Scotland

OK its wiki, but I suspect it is broadly correct.

My view is that places that had/have Gaelic names should have bilingual signs. However, I think it is a bit ridiculous when names which have never been Gaelic, are made so with a crude translation of the English name. Some train stations are particularly guilty of that!

coezietosie Yes I agree. I made the comparison before with changing a company's constitution, which requires a 75% special majority in favour. Changing Scotland into an independent nation could presumably be done with less than 50% of the electorate in favour. To me, that seems a far more interesting constitutional question than the West Lothian question.

there are c. 58,000 Gaelic speakers in Scotland, of which around 5,000 live in Glasgow and less in Edinburgh - cost per head is ridiculous

I don't get that Celtic. In the event of a No vote the Scots will not have had the audacity to want to go it alone.

IMO anyone getting power will find themselves making compromises they didn't anticipate having to make - once they are subject to the pressures of global corporations

I totally agree, and it's another reason folk can't just whine about the "unfairness of Westminster" for ever as things really aren't that simple. There are some who claim that Scotland have gorged on others' money for years while accepting little real responsibility for themselves - I don't necessarily agree with that, but now Scotland has many devolved powers, I don't feel that attempts to blame someone else are always appropriate either; it might play well politically to some, but as we saw last night, it doesn't create answers

It's also been said that negotiations following a "yes" vote would allow voices other than Alex Salmond's to be heard. This is hopefully true, though on last night's evidence I wish them luck with it ...

His reason was that he thought that Scotland,- even in the event of a no vote was going to be ' punished' by Westminister for having the audacity to want to go it alone, so his reasoning was that he may as well vote yes..

Thought it was an interesting way of looking at it, whether there is any truth in his assumption, I have no idea!

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/20/scottish-independence-referendum-english-attitudes

sites.cardiff.ac.uk/wgc/2014/08/20/the-english-favour-a-hard-line-with-scotland-whatever-the-result-of-the-independence-referendum/

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/english-say-scots-will-pay-a-heavy-price-for-referendum.25092377

grovel

The "audacity"!

In the event of a Yes vote who will negotiate on Scotland's behalf? I'm not sure rUK would take kindly to being lectured to by AS.

I have no idea how to pronounce most of those Gaelic names and have no desire to learn. I have no association with Gaelic whatsoever, it is not a language that appeals to me, and it has nothing to do with the Scotland I know and have lived in. I find much of it an affectation.

I am not closed minded as I have lived abroad and learned to speak German rather well at one stage in my life. German to me is a far less foreign language than Gaelic.

I would think Scandinavians are good at languages because Norwegian, Swedish and Danish are derived from the same language families as German and English, and because they are exposed to a lot of English language tv and pop music as youngsters.

NCforAye, it was a direct quote from Celticclass above. I'm all for the Scots doing what they want (either Yes or No). Just trying to understand the arguments and occasionally to lob in a couple of thoughts about how the debate looks to me down here in SE England.

Hopefully Nicola Sturgeon, grovel. She would make a better FM than Salmond.

Grovel sorry! I didn't explain myself very well. He was talking specifically about cuts to the barnet formula, after the vote (if it's a no vote) I presume this was the punishment he was talking about.

grovel

Sorry! Multitasking...

R.e. negotiations in the event of a Yes vote, negotiations would involve reps from across parties, plus non politicians. It wouldn't just be Salmond by any means.

I have no idea how to pronounce most of those Gaelic names and have no desire to learn. I have no association with Gaelic whatsoever, it is not a language that appeals to me, and it has nothing to do with the Scotland I know and have lived in.

That doesn't mean however that no value should be placed on the language. I also find it odd that you say it has no place in Scotland, where most mountains has a Gaelic name, and the way Gaelic is entwined in in the history/tradition of the Highlands. Indigenous languages ( and it is classed as such) are important.

In the event of a Yes vote who will negotiate on Scotland's behalf? I'm not sure rUK would take kindly to being lectured to by AS.

Well, he did invite AD last night

"The negotiating team will be led by the First Minister, and the process will include figures from across Scottish public life and Scotland's other political parties. During the transition period the Government will seek the agreement of the Scottish Parliament to extend its sitting days to ensure full democratic scrutiny of the process and to provide adequate time for the necessary legislation to be passed."

www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/11/9348/5

Concerning Gaelic, I have no problem at all with a nation trying to preserve a traditional language - providing it picks up the tab for it, of course

It seems to me, though, that the difficulties start when folk want to see it taught, not as an additional skill, but as the main language, as with Welsh schools where the curriculum is actually delivered in that tongue

Although no doubt well intentioned, this can sometimes create problems with literacy in the (for want of a better word) majority language, causing disadvantage in the childrens' future employment prospects - surely not something anyone should want to encourage?

As I understand it, there's to be a team of negotiators, which makes sense. Economists to sort out money stuff, legal experts to look at constitutional issues etc. Alex said last night he would even invite Darling...

It's aimed at Gaelic speakers who travel around the country, surely?

Why ? Will they be confused and not know they are on the east coast? What nonsense. The reason is simply the gaelic lobby trying to falsely make out gaelic was ever a national language.

Thanks.

In the event of a Yes, I hope for Scotland's sake that AS does not use his "assumption close" style of negotiating.

"Of course rUK will give us currency union".

"Of course the EU will welcome us on our terms".

Am I mistaken? I thought the no vote were a fair bit ahead of the yes's. From what I've read today it would seem the gap is closing. Is that correct or just wishful thinking on the yes's part?

Or will it be the Mrs Doyle approach "ah go on, you know you want a currency union. go on go on go on"

Followed by the "you're picking on us" approach I suspect!

Re the tweet from East Ren Council account...now there is a council who don't mind building on prime green belt...Cala, Stewart Milne etc all welcome

Am I mistaken? I thought the no vote were a fair bit ahead of the yes's. From what I've read today it would seem the gap is closing.

REQUIRED SWINGS

Swing required for 1 out of 6 pollsters to show Yes ahead or level : 2.0%

Swing required for 2 out of 6 pollsters to show Yes ahead or level : 4.5%

Swing required for 5 out of 6 pollsters to show Yes ahead or level : 6.5%

---

SCOT GOES POP POLL OF POLLS

MEAN AVERAGE (excluding Don't Knows) :

Yes 43.6% (+0.6)
No 56.4% (-0.6)

MEAN AVERAGE (not excluding Don't Knows) :

Yes 37.8% (+0.5)
No 48.8% (-0.7)

MEDIAN AVERAGE (excluding Don't Knows) :

Yes 42.6% (+0.1)
No 57.4% (-0.1)

(The Poll of Polls is based on a rolling average of the most recent poll from each of the pollsters that have been active in the referendum campaign since September 2013, and that adhere to British Polling Council rules. At present, there are six - YouGov, TNS-BMRB, Survation, Panelbase, Ipsos-Mori and ICM. Whenever a new poll is published, it replaces the last poll from the same company in the sample. Changes in the Poll of Polls are generally glacial in nature due to the fact that only a small portion of the sample is updated each time.)

scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk

There are some Scottish elder statesmen who command respect in my part of the world. If Ming Campbell, David Steel, Malcolm Rifkind and a few others pronounce on something I will listen and believe that it is a genuinely held view, not posturing. For all I know they may all be held in contempt in Scotland. Shame they're all in the No camp and unlikely to be negotiators.

Are there any old and bold rUK politicians respected in Scotland?