To wonder how you're voting in the Scottish Referendum and why?

[deeedeee]

a month away from the vote thought it would be interesting to ask

( no bunfighting , derision or soundbites please. just yes or no and why. feel free to post more than once with different reasons. No links unless independent fact or opinion, nothing from the official campaigns)

I'm a YES

because Westminster's failed to protect the vunerable and the UK's me first politics have taken us down a particularly nasty path. An independent Scotland leans towards to left and can potentially choose a better route. And if a change happens in scotland then I think that that could inspire a change in the direction of politics in the rest of the UK.

weatherall that's an interesting list...

broadcasting - how would iScot need any more channels? You'll still be able to receive all the ones you do now, possibly at slightly greater cost depending on licensing arrangements.

tourism - you already have a flourishing tourism industry. If it could be increased significantly, why hasn't it already? That's got nothing to do with independence.

renewables - wave and tidal power is a great idea, but requires even more investment and subsidy than wind. Where is the money coming from when the UK no longer needs to subsidise it?

west coast for oil - I know nothing about this other than a lot of surveys have already been done and no major finds reported. Perhaps you'll be lucky?

whisky - again nothing to do with independence - if you can sell much more, why haven't you done so already?

solar power - again not related to independence.

On shipbuilding, the UK only builds its complex warships in the UK. EU legislation allows for member states to retain certain works for the domestic market in the interests of national security. Ships not deemed as complex warships can be put out to tender globally and that's why some ships are being built in S Korea; they are not complex warships.
If Scotland votes for independence, the UK will continue to only build its complex warships in the UK, which would not include the Scottish sites. The Scottish sites would be eligible to enter the tender for building other UK RN ships but would be in competition with the rest of the world.
There is a published parliamentary report on this.

shakes
I remember the controversy when the Clyde was chosen to build the latest ships instead of Portsmouth. There was an outcry in Portsmouth - MPs and people were furious, saying it was a sop to Scotland because of the coming referendum.

Portsmouth will be rejoicing if Scotland becomes a foreign country.

Maybe it wasn't mean that way Roonerspism, but it is a bit insulting to say that about every Yes voter on this thread.

I am not sleepwalking into anything. I have made my decision based on both campaigns, articles from various neutral (and some not) sources, and academic research carried out for my thesis (tendencies shown by other countries in relation to social change and change of political ideologies).

What terrifies me, as I've said, is the impending cuts, the start of privatizing the NHS in England (it won't stop there), and the rise of poverty and lack of jobs. This situation, in the last few years, has only gotten worse. Staying in the UK promises further cuts. iScotland has a chance of not suffering such setbacks. It makes my blood boil that people have to visit food banks and the Government announces public spending cuts, to spend more on nuclear weapons.

If this does go through there are going to be many many disappointed "yes" voters in 10 years time thinking "what the hell did we do".

No country which has been offered independence has ever said no - Scotland would be the first. And none of those countries have regretted it, so there is good precedent.

I've been following this thread with interest and a great deal of terror tbh.

I agree with Roonerspism that the potential consequences for Scotland should the "yes" vote go through is devastating. I certainly don't think "yes" voters are stupid, far from it. However, I do wonder if they've really thought things through.

I have spoken to a large number of people, some of whom hold very senior positions in business and every single one is voting "no". I know that people have acknowledged there will be job losses, but do they really know how many? From what I can see the heart will be completely ripped out of the capital, house prices will fall dramatically and consequently a lot of high rate tax payers will leave. This won't be easy to recover from.

Personally, I have lived in Scotland all my life and will be devastated if I have to go and live elsewhere. If the "yes" vote goes through I will have no choice in order to preserve the financial security of my family. Most people I know have said the same.

Lost sleep? Damn right!

No country which has been offered independence has ever said no - Scotland would be the first. And none of those countries have regretted it, so there is good precedent.

You're wrong there, Numanoid. Quebec has had two referendums (1980, 1995) on independence from Canada. It was rejected both times.

Itsallgoingtobefine deeedeee Chelsy is infamous on these threads. She seems to have a disdain for Scots/Scotland. She posts well written (slightly goady) opinion pieces, but stays away from verifiable facts

Would be an example of my fourth point. Likes to tell people what they think and make things up, and has a disdain for many of her fellow Scots. Is also an example of stupidity in the Yes camp, as demonstrated by many past posts too numerous to mention. Never under-estimate just how many stupid people there are around. Its absolutely nothing to do with being Scottish or not, and Itsallgoingtobefine is very racist in suggesting it is. Fortunately Scotland has a large share of very clever, sensible people, to whom its current political class do a great disservice. It also has a large number of likely No voters, who tend to keep their opinions to themselves, or perhaps be at work during daytime.

But examples of stupidity - functional illiteracy (not related to dyslexia or disability), lack of understanding of basic points such as continuing EU membership or membership of international treaties, trying to patronise people and create a trend of dumbing down, disdain for people at threat of losing their jobs and having their homes devalued, etc..

I read a comment above about not trusting Scottish Widows because they "lied" about moving after devolution. Can't be bothered to look up the poster's name, but I have a number of friends who work for financial institutions, who are bordering on furious at having their futures embroiled in this economic uncertainty. Its meant a lot more extra work for them too.

Can't speak for them all but I should think they wouldn't be too enamoured to be told by the poster above that they are misguided, inadequately researched and so on by someone who seems to have all the time in the world to post on the internet while they are hard at work! The friend I'm thinking of for example has a First in Maths from a Scottish university and an extremely well paid, high responsibility job, despite coming from one of the poorest parts of Scotland and attending a quite frankly awful school. Her opinion strikes me as a lot more informed and well rounded than that of Itsallgoingtobefine, whom in real life she would have for breakfast. In fact, there is almost no comparison.

Hamish, are the main people you are worried about are the high rate tax payers, people on senior positions in business and home owners in the capital who may relocate ? or do you have other concerns?

Deeedeee of course she's not solely worried about them. They will be fine, they'll just move either with their job, our into an equally well paid job down south.

Its the effect that has on the rest of Scotland when they all go. Where will all the taxes for this fair and equal society come from? How is that so difficult to understand?

Hamish sorry to jump in.

Despite the fact that Quebec people speak a different language from the rest of Canada. (Speaking a different language would be a reason in favour of independence I'd have thought.)

No deeedeee I'm not worried about the high rate tax payers at all. They will move and likely be quite all right thank you very much. I'm worried by the consequences of the loss of these businesses and financial institutions and the knock on effect that will have on the average Scot.

I'm sick to death of the whole thing. It's a stupid idea and I hope it is firmly rejected.

I have not read one convincing argument for it although I've seen plenty pie in the sky wish lists.

I've actually been called a traitor (in real life , not on here) for saying I'm voting no. How exactly that works given I'm not the one wanting to break up my country defeats me.
One of the funnier comments I've read is that the BBC would continue to provide BBC programmes for nothing in exchange for programmes made by the Scottish Broadcasting Services. Have you seen the tripe produced by BBC Scotland or STV?

As Armnando Inanucci once said there's a special section of Hell reserved for viewers in Scotland.

I loved the comment about someone who said they weren't worried about falling house prices because they themselves "hadn't bought a house yet".

How utterly depressing that some people voting "yes" are so self interested.

Here are some figures about the financial services industry (apologies, as it's the only sector on which I feel qualified to comment fullly).

• 8% of Scotland's workforce is employed in the financial sector (this doesn't include supporting functions), mainly in Edinburgh
• it contributes 8% of Scotland's GDP
• 90% of Scotland's financial sector clients are based in England.

You might as well rip the heart out of Scotland's capital. Oh wait - it's OK, we have oil. Except not to the extent protrayed by the SNP. Oh shit.

Never mind, we'll get a piece of paper called a charter.

You're wrong there, Numanoid. Quebec has had two referendums (1980, 1995) on independence from Canada. It was rejected both times.

I know, but I said countries, Quebec isn't a separate country, it's part of Canada.

And Quebec appears to have put the referendum debate to bed for the foreseeable. One of the key reasons is that the future is very uncertain outside of Canada. People have got the opportunity to maintain a distinct culture and control many decisions about Quebec's future through the powers of the provincial government.

Scotland has much more in common with Quebec (turned down independence twice) than it does with any of the other countries that have recently voted for independence. I'm struggling to see significant parallels with South Sudan and East Timor myself.

You mean taggart and panorama, pheadra?

Scotland contributes more to the licence fee than gets spent on broadcasting from Scotland. How is that fair? I don't want to subsidise BBC London salaries anymore.

This issue isn't going to go away with a no vote. Half of the country wants independence. Do you think they are all going to disappear on 19th September?

There will be another referendum within 10 years imo. That will be a yes vote.

Hah try telling that to a supporter of Quebec independence.

I agree with that Phaedra, like most things than are done specifically by Scotland, for Scotland, it's distinctly amateurish.

Which is why I would worry about an iScotland running itself. Everything about this Yes campaign feels amateurish.

I loved the comment about someone who said they weren't worried about falling house prices because they themselves "hadn't bought a house yet".

That was me. And no, it wasn't self-interested, it was a positive as so many people were saying falling house prices were such a tragedy. But for first time buyers it's a blessing - I don't want to rent forever because deposits alone are ridiculously expensive.

So why is it okay for people to vote No because they're worried about their own jobs? That's not considering anyone else. But it's a concern for those people so fair enough.

I'm going to stop posting here anyway. When it comes to direct insults for voting a certain way, I'm not interested.

Half of the country wants independence. Do you think they are all going to disappear on 19th September

Half? Really where is that borne out?

Oh and yes I fully expect that if yes loses they won't accept the majority decision.

P.S. Sorry if it wasn't meant to sound insulting but I took it that way - I just prefer to avoid arguments (debates are okay) and this topic can get quite heated. No disrespect to anyone. :)

numanoid please consider exactly why the bottom will fall out of house prices before you rub your hands gleefully

So the fear of the economy changing because of high rate tax payers leaving scotland will cause high rate tax payers to leave scotland and change the economy?

Sorry, I know I'm asking questions about basic economics.

Don't mind me.

"I agree with that Phaedra, like most things than are done specifically by Scotland, for Scotland, it's distinctly amateurish.

Which is why I would worry about an iScotland running itself. Everything about this Yes campaign feels amateurish."

words fail me.

I'm just going to leave you four to worry and console each other with your exit plans for a bit.

The Scottish cringe alive & well on here now I see.

Thread had been relatively polite until the late arrival of the usual suspect.