To wonder how you're voting in the Scottish Referendum and why?

[deeedeee]

a month away from the vote thought it would be interesting to ask

( no bunfighting , derision or soundbites please. just yes or no and why. feel free to post more than once with different reasons. No links unless independent fact or opinion, nothing from the official campaigns)

I'm a YES

because Westminster's failed to protect the vunerable and the UK's me first politics have taken us down a particularly nasty path. An independent Scotland leans towards to left and can potentially choose a better route. And if a change happens in scotland then I think that that could inspire a change in the direction of politics in the rest of the UK.

Don't have much time sorry! But ultimately I do not think that making ourselves smaller and imposing more borders in a globalised world makes sense. I do not believe that the Scots are any more just or left leaning than rUK either. I know that the Yes campaign is more than the SNP and Salmond but I truly believe nationalism to be regressive. I want us to stay united and to tackle Westminster's failings together.

Further, although I am not as convinced of Holyrood's success as some, I do think that having, for want of a better term "the big stuff" dealt with by Westminster has allowed us to deal with issues that matter to us, matters that might have been parked otherwise.

I do not think that an iScotland will be unwelcome in Europe and I am at one with Sir David Edward on that but I do not really understand why supposed rule from Europe which is arguably more far removed in every way is acceptable but rule on reserved matters by Westminster is not. The ideology does not sit well with me.

I do not really understand why independence has been seen as the answer to so many issues throughout history: through austerity and boom times, war and peace. Different sets of facts and circumstances but independence will make it all better. I find that a tricky one to reconcile. I do not feel oppressed or silenced by the union. It's certainly true that I did not vote for the present shower in Westminster but I didn't vote for those in Holyrood either. Democracy is like that. I should imagine that there are some unhappy Norwegians too!

Then there are the issues post a Yes vote which are lacking in specification. I am concerned about competence and capacity too. That does not make me pessimistic but there are too many questions, not enough answers and I am not willing to take a leap of faith when I don't have to.

Sorry to be so brief!

Voting yes here - all the reasons already mentioned - I'm a Green voter and trident pretty high on my list.

On a kind of optimistic note, I saw frankie80 upthread talking about a class/educational split in the voters she knew. I have too, but falling the other way. Might it be that a wide spread of people are genuinely getting engaged either way?

frankie80

The consulate are mistaken. Provided your nephews were born British citizens, there is literally no legal way the British government can strip them of their citizenship. Westminster has recently brought in a charming rule which enables them to strip citizenship from naturalised citizens. The only way anyone could end up losing British citizenship would be if the UK refused to allow Scots/British dual citizenship, but as they allow dual citizenship with other nationalities that is unlikely. But then it would just be a case of people living in Scotland deciding whether they want to have Scottish or British citizenship. But, Brits living in Scotland, or Brits living abroad but born in Scotland, won't automatically lose their citizenship! (That would be like saying you'd lose your citizenship for moving to France...)

Fair enough ruby thank you! I don't agree with your assessment of the situation, but I respect your conclusions. I do think Scotland leans further to the left, and think it is worth the risks. As for unanswered questions, I've researched all of mine I care most about and the rest I've accepted are the future and unknowable and I'm comfortable with that. Best wishes, thanks for your time.

To the folk forecasting job losses and falling house prices, into fourth years that's always fucking happening, constantly in a cycle and usually the government before's fault. I'm not listening to your nonsense. There will be readjustment, there will be losses and gains, but I suspect the truth will be something closer to ordinary rather than the doom you forecast or the utopia your opposite numbers dream of. And I'd rather have hope than fear. So wheesht

That should say " in my fourty years"

Not

" into fourth years"

Auto correct fail

I do think Scotland leans further to the left

That's a given.

I agree re. house prices as well - they're always fluctuating. I've yet to buy my own house, so low house prices wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for me and other first time buyers. Would still prefer the possible bad points of independence as opposed to Osborne's barrage of cuts, which would be a definite thing as part of the UK.

I'm not listening to your nonsense

Yes Deeedeee You do represent exactly what I consider a Yes voter to be.

deedee
I respect your optimism, and wish you luck with your future in an independent Scotland.
There is no doubt whatever that jobs will be lost, but that may not even affect you personally.
Interesting times ahead!

frankie, I've lived in Scotland for 21 years, but am not British.
I was quite outraged on Sean Connery's behalf when it was announced that non-resident Scots would not be allowed to vote , but calmed down a bit when I realised that I and people like me would. Yes, I am easily placated.
It took me at least 10 years of living here to even begin to understand the history and connections and divisions between the 4 nations that make up the UK. In my upbringing 'England' was very much equated with 'Great Britain' (my parents still refer to me living in 'England' which drives my Scottish DH nuts - we've been married for 17 years; they know he is not English and that we live in Scotland, but they have NO understanding how much Scotland is a nation in its own right).

I agree that in principle this splitting up in smaller and smaller parts is not really something I'd normally support, but it is hard to ignore the strength of feeling and it goes well beyond economic and social arguments IMO and IME. I hated seeing what happened to the former Yugoslavia, but again strong national arguments prevailed (in a rather violent manner….)
It does not help that Westminster is largely run by the Bullingdon Blub boys and their cronies with NO understanding about Scottish society.

cloggal, yes, I've noticed that too. I think there are Yes and No voters in all demographics tbh.

And, for the record, I think the NHS is marvellous as a concept. It has its failings, but I'd rather have it than not.

ok maybe i should say, i'm listening to your nonsense, it's giving me sleepless nights and causing me to check my convictions at every turn, but i disagree with your pessimistic interpretations and think fundamentally we have differing things that we think are important.

thanks sally, you too x

Of course jobs will be lost, whole sectors might disappear. In the event of a Yes vote there will obviously be some serious economic restructuring going on. I believe the outcome down the road will be of benefit to Scotland, hence why I am a Yes voter...

No vote here.

Many reasons, including:

• Scotland has a government already, which has performed poorly and shown far worse controlling centralist tendencies than the comparatively benign Westminster.

• Lack of membership of international treaties, small isolated country prone to corruption, silly economic risk.

• I believe a large number of the Yes supporters to be a certain type of disaffected, rather unsuccessful and disappointed man who thinks the Scottish state will create well paid jobs for that type of person who will flourish without working too hard.

• Allied to the above, and also the tone taken by many of the Yes proponents, I have a natural distaste for being told what to think, say and do by people less intelligent and less qualified than myself.

• I have virtually zero level of interest in Scottish nationality, nationhood, statehood, etc. - as long as I live in a country with a good standard of living (which may vary throughout my life) I couldn't give a feck what it calls itself or its national pride (I have grandparents from 4 different countries and 3 different continents and have lived in 6 different countries).

Again, as a relatively neutral (but interested) bystander, I think the quality of debate disintegrates when either side starts to question the intelligence of its opponents. I think there are intelligent, educated people on both sides of the debate. I can't see how insinuating otherwise is helpful...

crikey cheesy, point three! did you mean to so rude to half your countrymen and ignorant towards people of a different political view than you?

deeedeee Chelsy is infamous on these threads. She seems to have a disdain for Scots/Scotland. She posts well written (slightly goady) opinion pieces, but stays away from verifiable facts.

I agree with Snapes, it's horrible when someone is insulted purely for voting Yes/No. There are intelligent people on this thread alone from each side, and regardless of whether I agree with them or not, they put their points across well and have done a lot of research.

I hate when it's assumed I'm a Nationalist (nope), a blind follower of Salmond (not a fan, just glad he helped to make the referendum a reality) or uneducated and insular.

I would be interested to hear how Chelsy concludes that she is more qualified and intelligent than every Yes voter though.

deeedeee I think you've been pretty rude as well. And telling people with genuine concerns to 'wheesht' isn't really adding much to the debate.

I'm sorry about your sleepless nights. If it is any consolation, I'm having a fair amount of trouble getting to sleep just now. I imagine lots of people are.

itsAllGoingToBe Fine thanks for admitting that there will be serious economic restructuring and potentially whole sectors being lost. As my family depends on my salary, how would you suggest I explain to my children that it would be worth it?

Any Yes people with comments to make on the press reports about Dr Whitford? She apparently had no foundation for claims she made.

I've just read about Dr. Whitford. As far as I can see, she hasn't made any definite statements, just that she "believes" and "thinks" these things will happen.

"By 2020, it is estimated 50 per cent of the English NHS will be run privately unless there is a policy u-turn or the Tories are unseated."

It's probably things like this ^ which have given her cause for concern.

Well Chelsy I have 3 degrees and I'm a yes voter.

Standard life said they would move south if there was devolution. They lied then, there is no reason to trust them now.

According to standard and poor scotland would actually be better off and have a higher credit rating if we reduced the size of our financial sector so some loss in this sector is no bad thing.

IScotland would generate lots of new jobs eg broadcasting, tourism, renewables, exploration of the west coast for oil, whisky amongst others.

Renewables isn't just wind. Wave and tide power has huge potential. More homes could be solar powered.

I don't think a house price fall would be a bad thing overall. It would benefit quite a lot of people. And I say this as a property owner.

Not wanting to defend someone I don't know, just a different perspective, but Chelsy's third point directs you to point two about who she is talking about. Also in the third point, if people are telling people what to think/say/do instead of letting people think for themselves, then she counts them too. However, most of the threads on here are generally 'research and make up your own mind' in tone so don't seem to be included in the point she makes. It seems quite a stretch to imply it is aimed at all yes voters.
That's just the way I read it anyway.

where have I been rude? apologies if i have. wheesht is meant in a gentle familiar kinda way round my bit.

to be honest, much of my present financial security depends on financial services in Edinburgh. But I'd rather vote yes then vote no out of fear and have to explain to my children that my view of what was important in life was confined to my own personal security, that I didn't believe in my own ability to change jobs and be able to continue to make a living and that I had as little faith in my fellow county men to be able to restructure and diversify. I haven't said I don't think there won't be job losses, I've said I think that it will be more ordinary than catastrophic.

But we could argue this forever. We hold differing states of mind and interpretations of facts. Fair enough.

I respect why what you believe leads you to vote the way you intend.

Yes, but again, solar, wind and tidal power are not BASELOAD energy. You can't power a country on an intermittent energy supply.

I'm having sleepless nights about the referendum too, and I wasn't until this thread started and I began to appreciate the lack of understanding from "yes" voters. (My view being that mumsnetters represent the more intelligent members of society).

I agree the "yes" voters are in the main, disgruntled individuals with an axe to grind. Generally the view seems to be "let's have a change" or "let's give it a whirl" or even "wow, we would get a charter".

This bloody well scares the beejesus out of me. Like it's a holiday, from which we can all return from. Do you "yes" voters have any concept of what this actually means? For hundreds of years? For your retirement, your kids' future, their kids' future?

Very little serious thought has gone into the very real problems presented by independence, and that is clear from this thread.

There is little thought for the consequences of an independent Scotland in practical terms. We might not like it, but successful countries require a growing strong economy, a variety of successful sectors, a stable financial system. All this will go.

If this does go through there are going to be many many disappointed "yes" voters in 10 years time thinking "what the hell did we do".

Without sounding hysterical, I am, frankly, terrified at what we appear to be sleepwalking into.

I wish to god a successful "yes" vote required 55% of voters.