Woman in sainsburys with autistic son....

[Pinot4me]

I joined a queue in sainsburys earlier today. There was a woman with a baby in a buggy (probably about 2 yrs old) and a boy of about 7/8. The boy was really agitated and playing up and the mum asked me if I would mind queuing at a different till as her son was autistic and was having a really bad day and he hated having people behind him (or crowding him). Tbh, I didn't mind moving at all as I could see she was struggling, so went to the till on the next aisle. The same thing kept happening as it's a big, busy sainsburys and, for obvious reasons, the queue she was in was the shortest. She politely asked everyone who joined he queue to move away. There were 2 people in front of her...I just can't believe that nobody let her go in front of them...she was really struggling and the boy was getting more and more distressed. I've never come across anything like this before...the cashier could see what was happening. Should she have offered help? It made me realise that we take he simplest things for granted. Surely someone should have offered to let her go through first? I definitely would have done if I had been in front of her...would you?

saintly that clip of your son surfing was amazing...it has really inspired me to try it with my son. He looked so relaxed, concentrated, at peace and in control. It made me cry a bit too, but in a good way!

Pm me if you want ananotherthing - I've got quite involved in the autism-surf world, I might be able to recommend somewhere to take your son. :)

Omg at the teaching them how to behave thing
We are under the challenging behaviour team, they have never told me to go shopping more often and I am being manipulated
If it wasn't so insulting
I would almost want to laugh
No wonder I don't go to asd groups anymore. Oh goodness, still in pads yawn yawn yawn. Some children are more complex. It's not that difficult to grasp

Yep firsttimer - it's the people who decide it's their role to teach our kids a lesson that irritate me.

Did you read that story about the guy that bought all the pies because a child behind him was upset and screaming he wanted one? It's a made up story, but the comments on reddit were basically cheering him on.

That's good, a kid is upset and you're just going to antagonize them. If someone went up to an adult that was crying and made their day deliberately worse, that person would be an uncontested asshole. So why is it ok with children?

saintly The video of your boy made me well up too, bloody beautiful it was !

Yes. I also suspect they are trying to make a point not just about teaching dd but also teaching me. Gives me the rage - no clue about what's going on but just decide we need discipline or whatever. If they had any idea of the constant complex info I'm sifting trying to understand where dd is at, what she wants, trying to decipher clues on eating, stims, tiredness. The sheer mountain of professional input and puzzlement, the plans being put in place to try to help and teach and someone looks at us for a few minutes and thinks yes I know this child needs to learn to wait/ take turns or whatever. And then takes it upon themselves to be unhelpful or judge. It makes me want to bash my head on the concrete alongside dd. Cos guess what I know she needs to learn to wait just how on earth do we teach that when every step up to that is missing or wonky in ways we don't really understand. What we could do w is love and support and some respect for the work we put in day and night.

Gets off soapbox.

jimjams so sorry you are having a tough time w ds just now. His surfing videos are still something I turn to when I feel hopeless. Make my heart sing still. Really hoping for a solution to his difficulties soon.

Thanks all - the surfing has been fabulous. I do have the advantage of believing that his anxiety has an outside identified cause and if we can sort that normal service will return (much harder to deal with if that can't be identified). I'm sure returning to school will help as well.

to everyone having a tough summer

Am so relieved to read this thread and see it is mostly sensitive and understanding.

My ds has autism and often struggles with queues and supermarkets.

Interestingly he gets a much much warmer reception when in a wheelchair even though his obvious state of overwhelming anxiety is the same in or out of a chair. He's a big lad with toddler like movements, IMO he's very obviously different much as I love him it astounds me that people assume the worst of him and me rather than thinking a teeny bit more and approaching the possibility he might have a disability or special needs.

A bit of empathy and kindness from others goes a long way.

If she lets customer services know when she goes in they'll help her, they walk an old lady round my local one and also seen them assist people with wheel chair trolleys do the reaching

Saintly your video made my day. Lucky mum and lucky boy!

Ds is 14 and still can't wait in queues but it's not for want of trying. Now we have a compromise where he has learnt to go and find a chair (there is always one beyond the till, even in Aldi) and sit and wait for me. I still get nervous in case he wanders off out of the door but he is actually pretty reliable now (mainly cos he is lazy and loves a sit down!). Getting as far as the till is still a nightmare as he constantly wanders off but at least he doesn't get upset and lie on the floor or run away, I remember those awful days too well. No one ever did offer to let me go in front!

There was one time though (also in Sainsbury's as it happens) when I was at my wit's end. Ds was getting to the age where he was as strong as me and was trying to get out of the shop. I only had a basket of essentials (wouldn't have taken him by myself otherwise) but I thought I was going to have to abandon it and go home empty-handed. By chance we went past the customer services desk and the lady asked if I was ok (I was getting quite upset by then). On a whim I asked her if she could possibly deal with my shopping while I hung on to ds and she was only too pleased to help. I couldn't believe it hadn't occurred to me before to just ask a member of staff! It's funny really as I've no hesitation in asking for help if I can't reach something down from a top shelf or find a certain item and getting through the till isn't that much different. Trouble is, we get so used to the lack of consideration (and pointed remarks about a good smack being needed coming from behind us, yes I've had that too) that we just focus on coping with the situation as best we can and getting the hell out of there.

Sleepdodger cross post .

I wonder if heading towards the self-service tills is also a possibility? There is usually a staff member hanging around there to help people use the tills/authorise alcohol purchases etc, I bet they'd be happy to bung some shopping through for a struggling customer.

zzzzz It may be harsh reading, but it works.

Can I post this link from the Supernanny website? It sort of explains what I meant about the supermarket trip with the planning of the visit which was the subject of my first post, only Supernanny has a slightly different method.

www.supernanny.co.uk/Advice/-/Health-and-Development/-/Special-Needs/Behaviour-and-Discipline-issues-for-children-with-Autistic-Spectrum-Disorders.aspx

I worked as a checkout operator for years, 16-21.

I am sure I missed cues from parents and inadvertently failed in providing good customer service as a result.

The thing is, in scenarios where queueing is necessary people will join the short queue.

Ham - I think there is some merit in your point about needing to make children w asd adapt to expectations. But I think the child we have in mind is hugely different. Looking through the article you linked about public spaces the main tool is time tables. My dd can't use the at all yet. Pictures pass her by without registering. I'm thinking of trying ear defenders in case noise ie an issue but I don't think it is noise and have doubts that she will tolerate them given she refuses to wear hats. So basically all that really applies to us from the guide you posted is keeping her safe. Doing that means getting her away from concrete floors and metal trolleys during a meltdown.
I often think most people can't even imagine a child like dd. You've said you have lots of experience but this is a different league really. Following it my options are avoid supermarket or leave supermarket quickly. The mere fact that I take her along constitutes my teaching her bit. When she kicks off tho I need to make quick decisions to keep her safe. Sometimes I abandon the whole trolley in lidl. I might see about getting more help from customer service in the bad days.

PS the bit about giving dd tasks made me snort. She is 4.5 and can't even follow no.

Ham it works for YOU. It wouldn't work for my dc. I think Goldmandra's post is spot on.

Both my dc are further terrorised by firm tones when already stressed, their fear levels go through the roof, after four years of daily firm routine at school, my ds was still no closer to coping, was regressing and becoming non verbal, self harming severely. I had to remove him in the end, it truly was a choice between that or losing him. Following your reasoning, the routine and structure of school should surely be a suitable environment for such children but for many they are totally unable to cope there, this is a well documented fact.

Once my dd in particular has tipped over it is impossible to bring her back, nothing works but to remove her to a place of safety, no amount of lists or routine etc. Once she's gone she's gone. Doesn't matter where she is, public or otherwise, she cannot be reached till she is back down.

I am glad your way worked for you, I really am but I cannot agree that it will work for everyone. In your first post you say "you HAVE to teach them" as though this is possible for everyone. It isn't, many times all you can do is keep trying and minimise the fall out, it may be that some triggers are so strong they will never overcome them.

Out of interest you say your family members have "severe autism". This is a very different thing to more higher functioning people with autism who in their way can often be more challenging.

Re: the park. Some people are just idiots, though. When my DD was about 2, we had a father standing up on the baby swing to use it while his daughter (old enough to use the normal swings) hogged the other one.

They took ages and only got off when they went home. The father knew full well DD was waiting - he beat her to the swing in the first place - so it was deliberate.

DD is not autistic so no meltdown. She was baffled, though, as was I!

Ham, as NickiFury says I am glad that those methods linked to worked for you, but I am afraid your posts remind me of some of the professionals we have met who have asserted, that because the method they have used with other children has worked with those children, it will work with ds.

Ds does not have ASD, ds has a rare genetic condition, plus ds is ds, and our family is our family, what works for others might not work for us, but that doesn't mean we aren't doing our damnedest to help ds get through life as safely and independently as possible.

My ds has profound autism and severe learning difficulties. For the time being supermarket visits are about keeping him safe and creating minimal distress for him. Realistically he will never be independent.

HamEggs
You are so right about helping our kids fit in!
I have done the pretend to be normal thing with my 2 ASD kids and it works - eventually. It is easier now 10 years down the track than for their peers with ASD who's parents followed the routines etc their children preferred.
I deliberately mixed up routes, meals and order of events etc if I thought they were getting too set.

I have two children with severe ASD and you have to teach them how to deal with normal day to day life. They can't be independent and function as adults if you don't

Some won't be independant or function as adults whatever their parents do.

You show that things you need become things you have to do as that is normal life. Teaching them that everyone gives you leeway just because you ask for it is totally wrong in my book. It is also wrong of her to mention or discuss the ASD in front of people, that would be excrutiating for him

Why would it be excrutiating?

It doesn't have to be. I suppose it depends on levels of understanding [of the child] and parental attitude towards the diagnosis. IME some parents can never truly accept their childs diagnosis and transfer their shame/negativity about it onto their child, THAT is likely to be excrutiating for the child with ASD.