Woman in sainsburys with autistic son....

[Pinot4me]

I joined a queue in sainsburys earlier today. There was a woman with a baby in a buggy (probably about 2 yrs old) and a boy of about 7/8. The boy was really agitated and playing up and the mum asked me if I would mind queuing at a different till as her son was autistic and was having a really bad day and he hated having people behind him (or crowding him). Tbh, I didn't mind moving at all as I could see she was struggling, so went to the till on the next aisle. The same thing kept happening as it's a big, busy sainsburys and, for obvious reasons, the queue she was in was the shortest. She politely asked everyone who joined he queue to move away. There were 2 people in front of her...I just can't believe that nobody let her go in front of them...she was really struggling and the boy was getting more and more distressed. I've never come across anything like this before...the cashier could see what was happening. Should she have offered help? It made me realise that we take he simplest things for granted. Surely someone should have offered to let her go through first? I definitely would have done if I had been in front of her...would you?

[hazeyjane]

If anyone had a child behind me kicking off for whatever reason, I would try and let them go in front if it was possible.

Hameggs - many people with disabilities would struggle with this into adulthood, and don't go on to lead independent lives. What may work for your children, may not work for others. And there are always going to be times when people struggle, even when you try your best.

[Pinot4me]

Maybe the cashier offered help before I tried to join the queue? Maybe the mum declined as was doing exactly as you suggest hameggchipsnbeans? I don't know. All I know is I came away feeling really sorry for her as what was a quick, uncomplicated Sunday shop for me was obviously blooming hard work for her (and her son)...saintlyjimjams your park experience sounds stressful and the young girls mother sounds like a delight! Not!

[saintlyjimjams]

Ham - my child will never be buying their own shopping, or walking down the street or into a shop independently. They won't be buying milk and will certainly never be driving a car. They won't even be able to make themselves a cup of tea unsupervised.

You are talking about a completely different level of ASD.


Yes, it's good to teach children with ASD to wait. DS1 has had years of it and waits reasonably well now. His meltdowns are now related to panic attacks and anxiety rather than waiting. And when they strike we need to get somewhere quiet and with space - fast.

[HamEggChipsandBeans]

Sorry, but maybe those children had waited all week to go on the swings? Maybe that was their "treat" for the week? Perhaps they were told be good all week and you get half hour on the swings. You don't know do you?

I never let mine "queue" for swings at the park, it was go find something else to do instead because other children were having their turn.

I also understand about the aggression as I have had that also, believe me, I have had my fair share of that. Please don't think that I don't understand or have not been there. I have and to some degree still am.

[sweetnessandlite]

Hameggandchips has given some brilliant advice. Especially her post on the first page of this topic.

[hellokittymania]

HamEggs, I might have said the same a few years ago, but it depends on the individual. Am I right saintly?

I'm all for being as independent as one can be, but some people can do things and some can't.

[hazeyjane]

Ds is unable to go on many of the other things at the park because of his disabilities, the swings is the only thing he wants to go on, and we had waited for ages for these the only 2 swings he can use (the baby swings) the older child looked about 6 and was definitely able to use the empty older swings, as when they finally got off, she ran over to them and climbed on.

[saintlyjimjams]

Ham - aged 5 my son had no understanding at all - except some nouns. He did not have a functional yes or no, he had no understanding of verbs and he had no ability to imitate, so could not learn by observation. He had no understanding of sign language but could use PECS cards to request sweets and crisps and not much else. His world consist of little fixed routines wherever we went and he would panic if he could not complete his routine. He had zero concept of turn taking.

He has learned an enormous amount in the ten years since then, but I am talking about a severity of ASD that you clearly have no experience with. There was nothing I could do when he was 5 to stop him having to do his 2 minute routine in the park which started with 3 swings on the tyre. He had no language to reason with him. He hadn't reached the stage of understanding wait buttons so we didn't have those (and tbh the mother kept the girl on the swing for so long we'd have been hard pushed to use them even if he did understand them). Once he'd had his three swings, backwards forwards backwards forwards backwards forwards - an entire football team could have had a go on the swing and he wouldn't have cared. It doesn't take that much effort to accommodate him.

[Numfardothedanceofshame]

I think it's important to remember that we're talking about a spectrum with very very wide ranges. What works for someone on one end may not work for someone in a different place on the spectrum.

[hellokittymania]

Oops, thread moved too fast. Very true hazey.

[PleaseJustShootMeNow]

I agree with ham in theory but accept what saintly says, that it's a different level of ASD. My 21 year old DD recently said that with hindsight she is greatful that I point blank refused to allow her to get away with her autistic behaviour. She looks at her disfunctional cousin and knows that's where she'd be if I hadn't been so unbending. She has my autistim to thank for that.

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

I'm sure she did think he was being a brat. Although personally I wouldn't leave any child screaming or hitting their head on concrete just to have a swing.


No I wouldn't either and just to be clear I AM NOT DEFENDING HER just what it looks like if you don't explain.

I dont think people are seeing someone with disabislites and being 100% horrid, they are seeing a brat screaming and wondering why the mother isnt doing something or - poor mother.

[BringMeSunshine2014]

Ham - can you at least try to understand that not all ASD is equal? Saintly is indeed being saintly, in her shoes, I'd be much less patient with someone telling me I managed my child with ASD badly. Especially someone who had never even met him.

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

I think your posts are really interesting, I met a little boy with Austism a few months ago and I was being questioned in a specific way and I was answering in that way he seemed to want, but I wondered if I should have been doing that or simply being deliberately vague.

By the by.

[mymatemax]

Ham, in principle I agree with what you are saying, in practice though every parent knows their childs limit.
We have for example worked hard to ensure that ds2's routines are not controlling and dominate out lives completely, at times that make sit hard for him and takes him well out of his comfort zone.
However I know that queuing, especially when crowded & someone in front and behind is not something that he can cope with yet!
Personally I would rather help him reduce that sensory overload (maybe that involves asking a person to step back) & distress trigger just at the moment.

Maybe, just maybe that parent in the supermarket had spent the last 5 yrs getting him through the supermarket doors! MAYBE?? We shouldnt make assumptions!
Everyone is different.

[saintlyjimjams]

Exactly Num.

And it depends very much on understanding. DS1 is still non-verbal but with increased understanding has come increased reasoning and flexibility.

Aged 8 he learned to imitate so could start to learn by observation (before then everything was hand over hand) and could start to learn verbs and some sign language.

Aged 9 or 10 he developed a functional yes and no. So we could start to ask 'do you want to d x - yes or no' - before then it was pretty much guess work.

Around the same age he began to be able to wait if there was an obvious queue.

Aged 12/13 with a talker he began to be able to make short 2 or 3 word phrases & his understanding rocketed with this increased language ability and he began to be able to reason. "no you can't do that because x"

When he's not having a panic attack then we can pretty much explain/direct our way out of a lot of situations now. But understanding and cognitive concepts of things like time had to come first.

[Goldmandra]

You have to work within the limits of each individual.

One parent may be able to teach their child that the whole supermarket visit can be endured and become manageable but another child may only be able to cope with a part of the experience.

A child may be able to cope normally but, on this occasion, has discovered a change of packaging on their favourite food and this has made the rest of the trip less manageable.

One one occasion, my DD1 managed the whole way round the supermarket and was holding it together until someone tapped her on the shoulder to ask her to move while he pushed his trolley through a gap. That unexpected touch took her from coping to not in a second.

Maybe this mother was trying to teach her DS how to cope during shopping trips but could tell that he was on the brink of losing it for some unforeseen reason and was doing what was necessary to allow him to hold it together until they could leave.

Allowing them to go in front of other shoppers would be a kind thought but it could also cause problems if the child was distressed by things suddenly happening in the wrong order.

The best thing to do in that situation would probably have been to ask the mother if there was anything she felt anyone could do to help and then taken responsibility for making that thing happen.

[saintlyjimjams]

Oh don't think I gave into his autism. I have held my hand over a lightswitch for an hour because it was dark and his brothers needed a sodding light on.

In the early days - before that cognitive leap and understanding and things like having a yes and no came along - every fixed routine you sorted and dealt with would be replaced by another. So if a routine wasn't too problematic I left it (its replacement might have been worse).

[Aheadofyourtime]

I would always offer to let someone in front of me if they were struggling or if they not have one or two items .

[Aheadofyourtime]

Only

[saintlyjimjams]

Maybe, just maybe that parent in the supermarket had spent the last 5 yrs getting him through the supermarket doors! MAYBE?? We shouldnt make assumptions

Ha- yes, very true - we had a 'getting through doors' problem for a few years. Any doors. It made going anywhere interesting (I now think it was a sensory/depth perception problem). I remember the paediatrician having to come and talk to me in the car because I could not physically get ds1 through the automatic doors at the CDC (and he wasn't going to drag him through).

Oh the early days were fun.

[saintlyjimjams]

We also had a complete refusal to stand on grass or sand or go anywhere near the sea.

Ds1's favourite activities now are surfing and moor walking. So please don't assume that because someone is having severe problems at that particular moment in time they're not working very hard on it. It just takes time. It took us 3 - 4 years of repeated trying to get ds1 back on a beach. And I'm very pleased we did. (This was him a few years ago for anyone interested )

We weren't doing anything 'wrong' all those years he wouldn't go on a beach - he just couldn't do it - he couldn't cope with the sensory issues)

[mymatemax]

yep Saintly, and kerbs & even if we got through the bloody door if there was a change in the flooring there would often be a sit down & refusal to move sometimes we could coax him in to carrying on but many a time we've had to literally reverse out of a building ;)

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

saintly does internet shopping not work for you? Apologies if I am trying to teach you to suck eggs.