to think that JL are perfectly within their rights to sell a hijab as part of 'school uniform' ranges?

[MaybeIAmJustNotReasonable]

John Lewis signed contracts to start a sale of hijabs within their school uniform range, having signed contracts with two schools in London and Liverpool. AIBU to think is actually okay, and we should accept the fact people can dress how they like, in terms with their religion?

What MistressMia just said.

"They were opposed to Sunday opening on religious grounds."

Two things: one, Sunday is not a holy day for Jews.

Two, John Lewis does now open on Sundays, so they clearly managed to overcome their scruples.

This isn't really about John Lewis, though. They're entitled to sell whatever they want within the confines of the law. It's about whether schools should collude with religions that place restrictions on what girls can wear in the name of spurious and sexist notions of modesty.

I've covered up in egypt -Long trousers long sleeved shirts. Especially when visiting g a mosque.

Was a relief to be able to put on so e shorts when I gut to Turkey though

Why does a girl in primary need her chastity protected by some cloth?

What next, baby burkas?

we're not taking adult women here.
.

Do JL shops still close on Mondays (if open on Sundays)?

YeGods: No, they open on Mondays now as well. This country isn't what it was, I'm telling you...

Is this country slowly turning Muslim?

No.
HTH

Time

Are you aiming for ironic or hysterical? I can't quite work the tone of your post out.

YeGodsAndLittleFishes

Do you think you can define the behaviour of an entire religion because of the behaviour of 2 small girls, who are actually behaving against their parents' beliefs?

No sashh I can't, my post was clearly in the context of someone claiming that wearing the hijab made her more chaste and morally upstanding, I was merely illustrating that to be completely false.

Do you think you can define an entire religion based on what the members of that religion wear then, sashh?

Any they were/are nit little girls - 16 year olds who should know better.

Redshifter you have taken my comment completely out of context. Read my whole post and the post it was in response to. I will not have you twist my words and make me I to something I'm not.

Add message | Report | Message poster Cherriesandapples Sun 17-Aug-14 09:03:59
A nun wears a habit because she has had a vocational calling and has made a free choice about becoming a nun. I see that society is increasingly compelling young Muslim girls to cover up. If non Muslim people the live in a community there is also societal pressure to cover up (I have felt this pressure). How far until IS "forces" are going to go around certain areas of this country demanding women cover up?

Add message | Report | Message poster GlaikitFizzog Sun 17-Aug-14 09:06:57
Really?? IS forces are going to invade here and demand we all cover up. Is that not a bit hysterical?

And if the community I lived in was in a Muslim country I would respect their traditions and cover up if it was necessary.

There is no necessity for Muslim women in the UK to not wear the hijab. Only narrow minded people who seem to think they are a threat to our national identity.

Yabu, I think it's wrong that girls are oppressed on this way. Why don't Muslim boys have to cover their heads?!

Muslim boys do cover their heads, indoors.

Indoors where? I don't know any Muslim boys who cover themselves indoors - though unfortunately that freedom doesn't extend to their mothers or sisters.

As more and more shops sell these it becomes normalised. I don't see the oppression of young girls by their culture as a step forward in the slightest.

Of course JL are perfectly within their rights to sell the hijab under the guise of school uniform. I think that is a non-issue. Any objections to this policy are probably fueled by bigotry.

For those who oppose girls wearing a hijab, do you object to all clothing that is worn for religious and/or cultural reasons? What about traditional clothing in the Hasidic community? Or among the Amish? If it is only the hijab you have concerns about, why?

People view the world through their own cultural filters, obviously. But I find it ironic to see all these comments about the hijab being "a symbol of oppression" without any recognition of the ways that the same could easily be said of many mainstream clothing/fashion choices. Personally, I dislike seeing little girls wearing makeup and high heels, and I think the cultural messages being sent to young children about gender roles and expectations in many Western countries tend to be trapped in very backward thinking rigid patterns. But I suppose people enjoy looking down on other cultural practices without examining their own. Motes, beams, and eyes come to mind (to refer to another religious tradition entirely, and I am an atheist!).

If JL was to sell make-up and high heels as part of its school uniform, and if schools were to insist that girls wore them as part of the school uniform, then I would complain about that oppression too. The 2 are not mutually exclusive.

The minute that Muslim boys (note boys, not men - although that would be welcome) are required to cover themselves at school to the extent that girls are then I think we'll be able to lose the claim of oppression. I don't see that happening any time soon though.

I have no issue with JL selling the hijab in uniform colours. Girls at our school wear them in plain navy and as things stand, they are needed at school and need to be uniform colours.

However there is something wrong here but it's not with JL. At our school, I have seen the hijab worn for an energetic sports lesson where the kids were hot and sweaty and was very sad for the girl wearing it. The girl was 12 or 13. Any man who needs a child's head covered to prevent his sexual feelings is a paedophile and belongs in prison. I think this girl has a right to exercise in comfort and is being prevented from doing so by parents who have taken religion to extremes. It was a girls sport and all the participants were girls, the teacher was female anyway. I've also seen girls in skirts (regulation) which ordinarily come 2inches below the knee. One girl has had to have her skirt altered so that it drags along the ground. Again, girl aged 11/12 being prevented from moving around as easily as the other girls and boys.

I dislike religious clothes (or any other clothes) that drag on the floor as people walk as well. Impractical and dirty.

Men cover their heads in many religions. But I notice these are token head coverings to demote respect. They are not expected to cover up in order to be modest.
It's sexist plain and simple. If Christianity can adapt to include women and homosexuality in Britian to keep up with the law/ social constructs of the time then so can other religions.

I agree many clothes send out cultural messages and the variety of clothes available now is wide and varied. I respect people's right to choose how to dress. School uniform is different though, the key is that it is a uniform.

In the year before I had ds and went in maternity leave there were 4 little girls in my year 1 class with head coverings.
In addition to this they had to get changed on their own and for both pe and swimming wore full body leotards, neck right down to their feet.
They were 5.

It made me a bit sad tbh. They also weren't allowed to sing or dance because it was "licentious". That meant no music lessons, no dance lessons, no wake up shake up.

Sorry gone a bit off topic but generally I'm not a huge fan of the head scarf on primary children.

The girl was 12 or 13. Any man who needs a child's head covered to prevent his sexual feelings is a paedophile and belongs in prison.

Yes. This absolutely. And I'd happily alter that argument to include any man who needs a woman's head covered to prevent his sexual feeling is the one with a serious problem. No woman should have to cover up for a man. If a man can't he'll himself then he does not belong in our society.

Have looked at some pictures on FB of hijab's , and wearing one would certainly help me cover my sticky out ears , birdsnest hair and mutiple chins and if i do the top bit good and tight , it might even iron out a few wrinkles !

Have had a practise with a tablecloth and now cannot be completely certain that those wearing them are not doing so out of vanity , i suggest you all have a go and see how fabulous you look , the chin coverage and forehead decreasing are almost worth it

And no more worrying about neck crepeage again , so they are all wearing them for religious beliefs are they ,