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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think the police shouldn't be able to lie in order to get a confession?

121 replies

JenniferJo · 13/08/2014 08:11

Friend's son A went to the cinema with friends on Saturday night. He was walking home alone when a police car pulled up and he was arrested.

A woman had been assaulted in the city centre and he fitted the description. He's a very "young" 18 and was frightened. He didn't think to ask for a solicitor or to ask to phone his parents. He was aggressively questioned and told they had him on CCTV committing the assault and it would go better for him if he just confessed. He at least had the sense to keep denying it.

Long story short he was released without charge but his parents are fuming. It transpires that there was no CCTV evidence the police deliberately lied to try to get him to confess.

They are going to make a complaint, obviously.

But it has set me wondering. What if he had done it? Is it OK for the police to lie to get a confession when there was actually no evidence to back up their claims?

OP posts:
StrawberryMojito · 13/08/2014 21:07

I said it once and I'll say it again...I don't know for definite re the CCTV but I do have my doubts re the ops third hand account. I said that the interview is recorded (although many custody blocks are now visually and audio recorded also). But yes, I do know he will have been offered a solicitor.

Ziggyzoom · 13/08/2014 21:14

They can't. It would be considered oppressive and any confession secured would more than likely be deemed inadmissible under PACE.

I understand that some people do have a negative experience with the police. But, please don't sleep-walk into believing all of the propaganda put out there by the current government. The agenda is very clearly to privatise the police service, much in the same way as they are denigrating the NHS to achieve the same objective.

It is perhaps a coincidence that Theresa May has an interest in G4S, but I doubt it.

The majority of police officers do a fantastic job, to the best of their abilities, in very difficult circumstances for average reward. If you believe anything else, I'm afraid you will get the police service you deserve.

SevenZarkSeven · 13/08/2014 21:19

Right so we are to ignore the scandal after scandal after scandal coming out of the Met then because you say it's all made-up silliness.

I see.

People who support the police without question baffle me.

SevenZarkSeven · 13/08/2014 21:20

"I'm afraid you will get the police service you deserve".

We sure as fuck don't deserve the police we've got. No two ways about that.

Londonladybird · 13/08/2014 21:22

The police lied about the evidence that was available at the time and they did not make sure that the person arrested was aware of their right to a solicitor...
Both these points will be very easy to establish if they make a complaint.
They complaint investigation will be able to hear the evidence the police had at the time of interview and will also hear if he was reminded of his right to legal advice at the start of the interview.

If it is exactly as the op who is friends of the parents of the son who was arrested tells it. Sometimes things get lost in translation.

Hope it all works out ok for the young man who was released without charge.

Ziggyzoom · 13/08/2014 21:26

I haven't said anything about accepting scandal. I said that some people do have a negative experience and clearly the 'scandalous' ones need to be dealt with. I am trying to make people aware that there is most definitely a press agenda on the part of the government to sully the reputation of the police service.

If you picked any occupation in the public or private sector and chose to denigrate their reputation then you could do it. You just need to focus on the negative stories and bury the positive.

SevenZarkSeven · 13/08/2014 21:32

"Some" people do have a negative experience?

Why have you put "scandalous" in speech marks like that?

We are looking at a host of atrocious actions at all levels of the Met over decades, and cover-ups, FGS. Not a couple of one-offs where people got a little bit upset.

It's not "propaganda" FGS.

Trying to wash everything the Met has done under the carpet on the basis that it's some kind of government conspiracy against them is outrageous.

Nicknacky · 13/08/2014 21:34

Most police custody suites have CCTV covering the corridors leading to interview rooms. If it has been said, it will be recorded.

StrawberryMojito · 13/08/2014 21:36

The complaint investigation will also be able to view his custody record where he will have signed to acknowledge his rights and entitlements including right to have free and independent legal advice. I hope they do complain, doubt we'll ever hear the result on here though.

Ziggyzoom · 13/08/2014 21:48

I don't work in the Met and I don't know about your experience.

I put scandalous in quotation marks because it was the term you used and I was quoting it. I also think corruption should be called corruption and criminality called criminality rather than 'scandal'. I am not incapable of thinking that this goes on in the modern police service. However, what I am trying to say is that there is an imbalance in the reporting of these things.

I have not, and would never suggest that criminal or unprofessional actions by police officers should be covered up. But they should be viewed in the context of how many positive interactions people have with the police every day across the country.

In my view, the current government is actively promoting negative stories to justify their cuts to the police service. For the first time in my 20 years' service, I no longer feel safe on the front line. I give my two little girls an extra long kiss and squeeze before I walk out of the door, because I fear more for my own safety than ever before. With this lack of resilience also comes a reduced ability for police officers to police from within and thus negative experiences will increase.

In light of the sway of public opinion against the police, I am seriously considering my future, because it is difficult to take those risk and put yourself in that position day in day out when you feel that there is no support there anymore.

SevenZarkSeven · 13/08/2014 21:58

It's not just corruption and criminality though if I had to list all of the things that are coming to light I'd be here all night.

There is nothing wrong with the word "scandal".

The government are not "promoting" stories, the stories are coming out from other sources. In fact, given the FACT that the police and the papers have been in bed for decades (along with others), pointing the finger at the government for press manipulation when the police have been at it for yonks feels really off.

Your personal experience is a shame, I am sure you are a good officer. However, I don't think that fact can be used to balance the outrageous behaviour that has gone on over decades. Just because you are decent doesn't mean that people should let it all slide.

The public have a right to know what the police have been doing, and to get angry about it, and that's all there is to it really.

VashtaNerada · 13/08/2014 22:54

Just to back up Ziggy, while there have undoubtably been human rights abuses conducted by police officers, my personal experience has been decent human beings working under incredible pressure trying desperately to do a good job. And I agree that the government and press are trying to divide and conquer public sector workers by promoting stereotypes - council officers are lazy, social workers are unfeeling, police officers are corrupt etc. Obviously there will be many times when these turn out to be true (and possibly that's the case here) but those will always be the exception rather than the rule.

Ziggyzoom · 13/08/2014 23:02

Thanks vashta

Ilovefluffysheep · 13/08/2014 23:03

Unfortunately the few bad ones spoil it for the majority of us good ones who are simply trying to do a good job under increasingly difficult circumstances. I guess thats the same for any job, but certain professions, such as policing, get an extra hard time because all these failings are reported in the media, who put such a spin on it that it gets lots of people thinking the police force as a whole is corrupt. We're not, its that simple. Sadly, it is near impossible to change the mind of people who have had a bad experience with the police, and I can't say I blame them. Just makes my job all the more difficult when people already have a set impression of how I'm going to act.

SevenZarkSeven · 13/08/2014 23:07

Seriously do some of you not read the news?

What is coming out is long term entrenched widespread wrongdoing at an institutional level.

It is not about the occasional "bad apple,".

I don't understand this desire to whitewash it. Well I do, but it's been all over the news for months now and each revelation is even worse than the last! It is not a " trope" about a couple of corrupt police officers. It is about fundamental wrongdoing over a long period of time involving people at all levels of the organisation.

I don't understand why anyone would chose to downplay it.

SevenZarkSeven · 13/08/2014 23:10

Right so you are stating unequivocally that investigations into corruption at the met will show that it was the actions of "a few bad ones" will it.

Is that why the met recently shredded lorryloads of pertinent paperwork then.

SevenZarkSeven · 13/08/2014 23:13

www.bbc.com/news/uk-26621322

I find this shocking, personally.

I don't think it is anti police propaganda or spin.

And this is just one small part of what has come out over the last year or two.

Nicknacky · 13/08/2014 23:16

I read the news. Things like Saville, plebgate, the Lawerence enquiry etc are NOT representative of everyday policing. Police officers investigating assaults, thefts aren't interested in setting people up, it's everyday work for them. I deal with the evidence I have then I go home and barely think about it again unless it's a incident that sticks in my mind. And I'm certainly bit going to lie and lose my job to arrest someone for a minor offence. No one would.

Everything on mn seems to revolve around The Met. There is other forces in Britain you know.

SevenZarkSeven · 13/08/2014 23:18

There's no point though is there.

Many in the uk don't trust the police, and with good reason.

Something needs to be fine but I can't see anything changing.

Op I hope your friends son is OK.

SevenZarkSeven · 13/08/2014 23:18

I live in London which is why I know about the met, they are my police force.

Nicknacky · 13/08/2014 23:19

What do you mean, there is no point?

Ziggyzoom · 13/08/2014 23:19

To try to put it into perspective for you Seven - the force that I work for deals with about 1800 calls per day. That amounts to over 600,000 calls per year. How many of these do you think are dealt with in a corrupt and unprofessional manner? If the corruption was as endemic as you are suggesting the the Daily Mail would have no room left for anti-immigration or woman-hating articles!

No-one here is trying to cover anything up. I hope corrupt officers get what they deserve, but, this needs to be put in perspective.

SevenZarkSeven · 13/08/2014 23:20

And it's not much bloody use to the 8 million or so Londoners to be told that things are just peachy in Devon or wherever it is they are getting it right.

Nicknacky · 13/08/2014 23:21

Seven, are you replying to anyone or just ranting?

SevenZarkSeven · 13/08/2014 23:25

Yes you are all telling me i am wrong, exaggerating, falling for propaganda etc.

So with that approach there will be no change will there. There is no point to anyone saying anything. The police do not see there is a problem, so nothing will change. The attitudes on this thread show that clearly. I say I read the news it is awful. Police officers say don't be silly there's nothing to worry about if there is we will sort it, leave it alone.

OK I will leave it alone. Happy now? Good:)