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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think the police shouldn't be able to lie in order to get a confession?

121 replies

JenniferJo · 13/08/2014 08:11

Friend's son A went to the cinema with friends on Saturday night. He was walking home alone when a police car pulled up and he was arrested.

A woman had been assaulted in the city centre and he fitted the description. He's a very "young" 18 and was frightened. He didn't think to ask for a solicitor or to ask to phone his parents. He was aggressively questioned and told they had him on CCTV committing the assault and it would go better for him if he just confessed. He at least had the sense to keep denying it.

Long story short he was released without charge but his parents are fuming. It transpires that there was no CCTV evidence the police deliberately lied to try to get him to confess.

They are going to make a complaint, obviously.

But it has set me wondering. What if he had done it? Is it OK for the police to lie to get a confession when there was actually no evidence to back up their claims?

OP posts:

deakymom · 13/08/2014 09:34

its unethical and why should they get away with it? i had someone vandalized my house i knew it was her she told me it was her the police told me i could do nothing because i had no evidence so i dropped it however a few months later she made a police report about my DH claiming he was in our former home town shouting abuse at her and it was "distressing" etc they rang me and claimed to have it on CCTV! he was overseas in the military when i pointed it out to them they said no he is on CCTV i said go arrest him then following day they are back apparently she made a mistake it was me in our former home town shouting abuse and distressing her and they had ME on CCTV okay where is the footage? we dont have to show you i pointed out i had swine flu and was on lockdown and not allowed to leave the property can you prove it? yes im on tamiflu do you wish to come to my house and confirm it? surprisingly they said no i look nothing like my DH by the way im short with long hair he is tall with none so how they accepted she was mistaken is beyond me!

another incident a mother was rang about her son they demanded to know where her son was as they had him on cctv committing a crime that day she pointed out he was in court that day and had been sent to prison so unless he had escaped? they said no he was definitely the one she assured them they were mistaken they demanded to search the house she said okay they searched the house telling her she could be charged with harboring a criminal and impeding an investigation then her sons solicitor turned up with the paperwork proving her son was indeed in prison

im not slagging off the police force im just pointing out common sense has no place there some days i worry for the future of this country

they shouldn't lie end of either you can prove it or you cant

dawndonnaagain · 13/08/2014 09:58

It's all well and good saying things like 'he was an idiot not to ask for a solicitor' but my son has AS. He wouldn't know what to do.

sashh · 13/08/2014 10:11

I didn't think they were allowed to outright lie although they are able to twist things in their favour. A confession based on lies is classed as entrapment and would have the cps throwing it out before it ever got near a court room.

I wish I lived in your lovely world.

My experience is they will do / say anything to get a confession. I was arrested by the force that at the tie claimed to have, 'the most up to date technology' with CCTV cameras in the custody suite and all over the police station.

When I asked for a copy of the CCTV to substantiate my claim about what had been said by the police apparently all the cameras had broken that day.

Stinkle · 13/08/2014 10:16

I think it's wrong.

We had issues with the police with a young person we used to foster.

YP was accused of shoplifting. The police stated they had CCTV and witness who named my YP. There was no CCTV evidence and the witness had not named them

In actual fact, YP was drunk in a different town at the time of the offence, but as they were drunk they had no recollection of where/when they were so confessed.

The police interviewed my YP without an appropriate adult or legal representation (YP was arrested while out, neither us, not social services were informed of the arrest until the interview and confession had taken place).

A young, deeply troubled, person with a severe alcohol problem who was in care and already well known to the police, was just an easy target for them.

Skychangesky · 13/08/2014 10:20

It's all very well and good saying oh, who cares, if they are guilty - the problem is that if the person is NOT guilty, not only has a huge miscarriage of justice taken place but also the guilty party walks free.

I can quite see how someone under stress - and being held in custody is stressful anyway - being lied to about we saw you do this and it would be better if you confessed - might stress someone enough to confess, if they think it might get them out of there.

BreakWindandFire · 13/08/2014 10:31

I know someone completely innocent who was arrested and told the police had 'proof' he was guilty. He was told that he was facing 5 years, but if he just admitted everything they could helpfully sort it out with a nice caution that wouldn't cause him any problems and he could leave the station right away rather than spend months in prison on remand......

He maintained his innocence, insisted on a solicitor and they eventually admitted they had no evidence, and had the wrong person. I think he got an apology (eventually).

It's certainly worth following up with a complaint as this is the sort of arrest that could show up on an enhanced CRB, esp. if it was a sexual assault.

MrsBoldon · 13/08/2014 11:59

I've been an appropriate adult on many occasions and for very serious crimes.

On one occasion I'd been working since 9am and in the Police Station since 4pm.

By 2am when we had been in a 'no comment' interview for a very serious offence in an (obviously) windowless room with 5 people almost sitting on top of each other for several hours; my service user and I were exhausted, hungry and emotionally wrung out.

I was tempted to make a confession even though I wasn't the accused!. I just wanted it to stop. I can easily see people confessing to something they didn't do in those circumstances.

differentnameforthis · 13/08/2014 12:22

Bloody stupid of them to lie, I would have thought. What happens if he did do it, confessed because he thought they had evidence, then went to court, police couldn't provide a key piece of evidence that placed him at the crime scene?

Case thrown out, surely? No conviction. Perpetrator free to do it again!

PinkLights · 13/08/2014 13:40

Um, I don't think they are corrupt. You can't say the entire force is corrupt based on a story from a poster who probably got it from the parent(s) of the person it actually happened to

No I didn't base my opinion that the police are corrupt on the OP, I based it on the case's you missed off when you quoted me.

Nicknacky · 13/08/2014 13:46

I would by interested to know how the lie was phrased? Especially if he was in as much of a state as you say he was.

Scenario 1....."we have caught you on CCTV assaulting this girl"

Scenario 2.... "If we find CCTV with a person matching your description assaulting this girl, how do you explain that"

Both questions incorporate CCTV but the second question is perfectly acceptable.

Officer would be slaughtered at court for blatant lies, not allowed at all.

PinkLights · 13/08/2014 13:47

I have refused to help the police as a victim in the past, as they were going to throw the book at someone because of their race. As upset as I was at the driver for hurting me, I was so disgusted at the police I refused to fill out the paperwork on principle they were clearly trumping up things because they hated his race. Thinking I agreed with them, and I was white too they happily told me of their plan. That backfired, and I very much doubt I would help the police or call them for help ever again and that is based on being a victim of a few crimes.

Numanoid · 13/08/2014 13:51

No I didn't base my opinion that the police are corrupt on the OP, I based it on the case's you missed off when you quoted me.

I know, but making such an accusation about the entire Police force based on a handful of cases is unfair.

PinkLights · 13/08/2014 14:04

It is an opinion and it is mine and you can't control me with your words on a screen to think as you do. I can do as I please as long as I don't break talk guidelines.

queenofthemountain · 13/08/2014 14:07

That is why a confession alone isn't enough to secure a conviction.There has to be evidence too.

Original poster

JenniferJo · 13/08/2014 14:18

Thanks for the replies. I'm a bit shocked at how many similar cases have been mentioned here.

I hope my friends do take it further, if only to discourage other police from acting in a similar way.

OP posts:

Numanoid · 13/08/2014 14:19

It could be frustrating for victims at times without evidence, but that's true. The whole system could be open to corruption if prosecutions could be made without solid evidence. :/

BreakingDad77 · 13/08/2014 14:20

I thought everyone knew don't speak to the police unless you have a solicitor? 16-18 some 'pranks' can get out of hand, when they get to this age they need to be aware as to what they can now be liable to.

Do they still (if there is a group of you) say one has said it was you, until one confesses or is that just in TV programmes?

Nicknacky · 13/08/2014 14:24

Jennifer, did you read my post? Bearing in mind it's now like Chinese whispers?

And as he is 18 he will need to complain, not his parents.

steff13 · 13/08/2014 14:24

Here in the US, the police are allowed to lie in order to obtain a confession. It is a legal and accepted interrogation practice. If they lie in order to obtain evidence, it's possible the evidence would be considered inadmissable, but the lie would not invalidate a confession.

SevenZarkSeven · 13/08/2014 14:34

No not everyone knows not to speak to the police without a solicitor.

I have heard of things like break wind and fire describes before.

Personally I am very very dubious about the police due in part to my experiences with them and then the scandal after scandal coming out about the met has just firmed that up.

I don't think they should be allowed to coerce lie or bully to get their "result"

Original poster

JenniferJo · 13/08/2014 14:37

Nicknacky,I did read it and I find neither question acceptable, frankly.

OP posts:

Pastperfect · 13/08/2014 14:37

It is a breach of PACE not to inform a suspect of their right to a solicitor and to state that they have evidence that does not exist.

Breaches of PACE may result in a case being thrown out (in laymans terms)

The police shouldn't do it, they know they shouldn't, yet they do it all the time.

Nicknacky · 13/08/2014 14:40

In what way is it unacceptable? I'm genuinely interested.

These threads are always interesting as people are so anti police. Being interviewed is never pleasant but if a person is suspected of a crime then a casual chat over coffee is hardly likely to provide any evidence indicating the accused guilt or innocence.

Original poster

JenniferJo · 13/08/2014 14:42

Leading questions and to someone in a state of panic they sound much the same.

They had only to establish where he was when the assault happened - in the cinema with a lot of witnesses. But a confession was easier for them, I expect.

OP posts:

Numanoid · 13/08/2014 14:44

These threads are always interesting as people are so anti police.

I'm not, I'm fully aware that some police officers are corrupt, although I respect the Force in general.
I know a lot of people who complain about the Police for no particular reason, call them names, and so on. Yet the answer is always the same when I ask "So, who will you go to if you ever need help?"

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