To be shocked at how many people think having no contact with family is normal?

[dogscatsandbabies]

I'm a lurker. Can't help it, I find AIBU gets me through many a night feed. I'm always totally shocked at how blasé some posters can be when giving advice "she sounds unbearable to me, I'd go NC" and similar phrases.

Really? Just like that you'd advise someone you don't know to break all ties with a relative over a situation you've only heard one side of, creating a family situation that can become unbearable for husbands / wives / siblings who are very literally stuck in the middle?

I know there are some situations when decisions are taken not to see family anymore for various good reasons but I'd seriously hope these were carefully considered and thought through in time given the wider impact it can have. NC just seems so normal to so many. Is it just me that thinks (safety of children etc aside) most problems are at least worth working on?

It wasn't until I started reading mumsnet that I realised that I am actually nc with my SIL and have been over 3 years now. Quite easy since she lives miles away and it has helped my sanity no end.

DH has huge periods of being nc with his mother and step father too, purely to save his blood pressure.

I think being in our 40's and having our own dcs to protect from toxic relatives means we've gone long past the put up and shut up stages.

You can pick your friends.....

I totally agree tillibob

Delphinium you could equally argue that parents have to respect their adult dc's choices of partner. If their choice isn't actively harming the dc, should the parent slag them off to the child?

And wrt to feeling a hole, you feel you missed something you wanted. But what if the reality was diametrically opposed to what you wanted? What if they had been unpleasant to you? Punished you harshly?

Don't really want to go I to the full circumstances as would totally out me.

I'm nc with my older (half) brother. He is a selfish, horrible bastard with no regard for anyone's feelings except his own. He was vile to my dad when he was alive, as well as when he was dying. No-one else on my side has anything to do with him as far as I am aware.

Probably the way to judge it is how you explain it to your child when they are older. If it is completely understandable because of abuse etc you have done the right thing, but if it is completely petty (and some are in MN) then you should make more effort.

I have never felt the need to go 'NC' with anyone, but I have stopped bothering with people in my family. As in, I don't call them/organise things with them, polite but distant if both at things, unavailable generally.

If there was abuse though I bloody well would cut them out.

Who the hell needs that.

but if it is completely petty

Delphiniums. And what sounds completely petty to you might be a slow, dripping of constant undermining to the person going through it.

My mother occasionally says that my children need a male role model in her generation. Their paternal grandfather isn't in the picture, their maternal one is not in contact, and her new partner is not someone I'd trust around children.

In my opinion, having a pair of bollocks and being of a certain age isn't actually that important with regards to being a role model. I look for other qualities before I look for them. Have I created a 'hole' in their lives? Yes. I don't care - I'd rather have a hole than manipulation.

As to how I'd explain to them, that's already happened. They don't see their grandfather because he was cruel to me, and we don't tolerate unkind people in our lives. They know how to make compromises and adjustments for people who have challenging behaviours, but we draw the line at cruelty. It's not acceptable.

If they've learned that they don't have to tolerate someone treating them badly, even if it's in small but continuous and consistent ways, then I think I've taught them a very important lesson.

I'm also afraid that I don't understand your horror of a partner being asked to go and see their family without the other partner. Yes, family and support are important, but if one partner is asking the other to continuously sacrifice their dignity and to go into an environment where they will be bullied - why should they have to put up with that?

They're not cutting of the other's support network, the partner is allowed to see his/her family as often as they feel they want to - they're protecting themselves. To me, it sounds like a perfect compromise. Partner 1 gets to see their family. Partner 2 isn't being bullied.

Also, isn't it normal to see your family on your own sometimes? DH really likes my mum, but I see her without him all the time. We're married and a partnership, but we're simultaneously independent people who are both capable of being somewhere without the other. MIL and I get on really well, but I know she still likes him visiting without me sometimes, so she's still got her son all to herself. Not often - maybe for a weekend a year or so, but she likes it. I think this is healthy.

delphinium "then you should make more effort."

Why? relatives are no more than a random bunch of people we happen to share genetic links with. Doesn't mean to say we need to stick together I have cousins that stay within an hour's drive and haven't seen for 10 years. Why is it important to " make more effort" with peope tha tI have no interest in? i have friends who are closer to me than family.

Either you are a family person or you are not.
I am a family person- still see all first husband's family even though he is dead- so does DH2 (and on his own sometimes) - they are nice people.
DH stays with my mother in his own, if on business. My SIL and I are off for 5 days holiday on our own soon. DS is getting married , his fiancée has been part if the family for a long time- she and I are going out on our own on Saturday.
I struggle to understand how people think they are marrying a partner and not getting his family too.
I understand that everyone isn't lucky and there are toxic people that you want to cut off from- rightly so. But some reasons are petty.
Your partner is also the results of their family -nature or nurture they get their genes from their family- and so will your children- you don't get to choose!

They may not be the people you would choose in the first place- that is why you need to make the effort.

You also have to realise that your children and grandchildren might not have your view. My paternal grandfather cut himself off-it is only as an adult that I realised that we didn't know that side of the family. Doing family history and the Internet has made it possible to reconnect and meet distant cousins and you realise that they were all perfectly nice- it was my grandfather who was the difficult one! He had very rigid views and would hold fast to a principle, whatever the cost!

"either you are a family person or you are not"
some of have not had the luxury of that choice mrs smuginimsblue

Insensitive, dismissive attitudes like this OP, are why abuse is hard to articulate and stand up to in society.

I doubt many go no contact lightly. It is often a long andvery painful process of separation. Often after repeated attempts by the victim to try to mend things orblaming themselves.

Society finds it hard to accept that some mothers/family are incredibly damaged people who cause pain and mental health problems to those unfortunate enough to be related to them.

I've turned my life around after going no contact with my own family. I found support and understanding amongst fellow sufferers on here, which I couldn't in real life.

Some people don't have the luxury of choice- but some people have that choice and are not willing to make an effort. You have to separate the two.

they are nice people.

What would you do if they were not nice people? What would you do if they belittled you and demeaned you every time you saw them? Suck it up and go anyway?

What if they wanted to give you no independence and choices, but wanted you to live entirely to their will. What you eat, how you eat, how you raised the children ('the' children rather than 'your' children, because in the toxic scenario, you're just a walking womb and the children are 'theirs'). Everything you do gets comment and judgement and defiance.

These might be hilarious 'jokes' but they're the same jokes that get made all the time because 'silly mummy is so sensitive'. They might feed your vegetarian children meat because 'silly mummy doesn't want you to go strong.' They might cut your son's hair because 'silly mummy's made you look like a girl.'

Would you still keep going if this happened every time you saw them?

You also have to realise that your children and grandchildren might not have your view.

I do realise this. I completely accept this, on account of knowing that my children are neither an extension of me nor a possession. At the moment, they are not old enough to make choices, so I make them for them, and I'm going for a) demonstrating that their mother has value and worth and doesn't have to put up with being crushed and b) protecting them from the sort of manipulation that comes with my father.

Those are undoubtedly the right choices to make, largely because I don't want to a) demonstrate that their mother is valueless and irrelevant and must put up with bad behaviour from anyone and b) run the risk of them being hurt or damaged.

I also understand and accept that there may come a time when my children don't want to have a relationship with me. It will hurt - obliviously it will be like a full body blow. However, I'm working on avoiding that situation by treating them like human beings. Ultimately, I want them to be independent. That's basically the way in which I differ from my father. My independence terrified him.

I struggle to understand how people think they are marrying a partner and not getting his family too.

You seem to be under the impression that lots of people think this way. Generally speaking, people try to have a relationship with their partner's family. If it doesn't work, they withdraw.

Personally I struggle to understand how anyone in this day and age thinks that everybody ought to just put up with crap from people just because.

MN has been an eye opener to me in that some people analyse every sentence- it makes them hard work and someone like me, who makes off the cuff remarks and tongue in cheek remarks, is lost before they start! Makes you scared to speak!

Delphinium, I would be genuinely interested to see links to some threads about people being cut off for petty reasons. Also any which are about people not wanting to engage with their partner's family for silly reasons.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen - there are petty and vindictive people out there, and as has been pointed out upthread, sulking and the silent treatment are hallmarks of manipulative personalities - but this claim that it's an MN 'thing', that people turn up in hordes to shout 'NC'! at stories of minor disagreements, is just not something I recognise. If I posted that I was going to go NC with my husband's family because his mum didn't bring potato salad to my barbecue or something, I guarantee you I'd get 150 posts saying 'Oh get over it.'

The genuine need to go NC because of abuse is, sadly, something which I do recognise and is extremely well evidenced here.

There are 211 posts on this thread, including scores of stories of terrible, toxic family members. There's not one person who's posted reasons for NC which are demonstrably petty or blown out of proportion.

I understand what you're saying, which is that you think it's OK to go NC when people are genuinely toxic but some people do it over nothing. However, I think posting things like 'Some reasons are petty', 'You need to make the effort' and 'Either you are a family person or you are not' implies that some of us here are making a fuss about nothing. Have you read the stuff people have written here? Their experiences? Do you see why you're getting hostile responses?

Whilst there may be a theoretical group of people who disown family members willy-nilly, the vast majority who do it are doing it for very good reasons.

You do have to separate the toxic- I am not talking about toxic. Of course I would NC if they were toxic. They were merely people I wouldn't choose as friends so I had to make an effort, get under the surface and find the good points. Very, very different. I didn't think OP was talking about toxic- just the casual way people talk about ILs on MN.

MN makes me think about what i say and how i say it too. i see this as a good thing, i don't wnat to go around hurting people unnecessarily

off the cuff and tongue in cheek remarks in text can be tricky - you aren't getting the non-verbal cues

well don't write trite thoughtless crap then delph, there's a thought/

I am going out- will endeavour to find some later. I remember the one who thought her MIL saying 'how's my baby today' was more than a figure of speech and meaningless.

I don't hurt anyone- they are not personal - they are not supposed to be analysed!

We are NC with MIL thanks to her standing by the paedophile husband who abused her own GC.

I hope that's serious and considered enough for you, OP?

Threads about abuse are not the best places for 'tongue in cheek' remarks, delph.

I understand you're cross about getting a bit of a pasting and it is unpleasant, but please don't start making remarks about other posters like those to looking.

The things that are being discussed here are deeply, deeply personal. People are talking about their experiences of abuse. Looking's response was reasoned and polite, and didn't deserve to be ridiculed that way. She actually agrees with you on a fair amount, as do I.