to be shocked at 4 year old attacking a little bird and her mum not doing anything

[littleSpud]

I was at my friends the other day and my dd (5) and friends dd (4) were playing in the garden

my dd came running in really distressed saying is hurting a bird!!! please come and stop her!! I went out to find friends dd chasing this poor little creature around whacking it with a tennis raquet, I took it out of her hands and said (feebly, as I daren't tell her off as its Not The Done Thing in my circle of mates ) awww please don't hurt the bird! I think the poor little thing might have been injured to start with as it clearly couldn't fly off :(

well her mum did not give a shit and barely even told her off, I made my excuses to leave just after that and I don't think I want to go there for a while tbh :(

i think her dd is a spoilt spiteful little sod anyway (she bullies and dominates my dd the moment my back is turned) but I think twatting a living creature with a blunt object goes beyond the normal realm of four year old naughtiness. and I am disappointed in her mum.

(she also has pet rabbits, I fear for them tbh )

And we are talking about Her presumably NT nephew. Not AN.

You do realise that had that dog he was hitting had turned on him and bitten him, that dog would have been removed from the family possibly PTS. Tht boy could literally have been responsible for a death at worst and long term trauma making him hard to rehome at best.

Right, fair enough.

At the same time, she could have sat down with him and explained that to him (assuming he was older). Then had a talk to see what's going on in his life that he thinks hurting something is ok. He could have needed a positive influence in his life. It's a shame she missed that opportunity.

Never allowing someone over again 2 years later while children make developmental improvements in leaps and bounds is too harsh.

But I also find that people with anger that extreme often have issues themselves. He probably triggered memories of her own abuse when doing that.

Hopefully he learns as he gets older to not take another person's anger personally.

OP that is a horrid thing to witness.

Our 6 year old neighbour threw our kitten as high as he could into the air just to see what would happen. He broke her jaw.

I told the mum that unless she teaches him empathy she will be visiting him in prison one day. This was actually one of a few worrying incidents (such as daring small children to climb high in trees). Luckily we moved away from them but I do fear crossing paths with them again one day.

There is some tough reading on this thread ....awful.

I would have been much harder on the little girl and made it clear in no uncertain terms that this is not on!

And she had every right to be angry.

This wasn't a complete stranger child this was her nephew. I'm sure she knows her own brother/sister and that the child wasn't in danger or she would have called SS herself.

I get your trying to fight for children who may have problems or neglectful parents. And that of course is admirable. BUT, some kids are just little brats for the sake of it, I grew up with one, and there is no reason behind it other than maybe they get away with too much which isn't always enough to be hugely concerened over as MN seems to show often that people parent differently, or are just brats.they may or may not grow out of it but there doesn't always have to he a shitty home or medical condition behind a child being a nasty little toe rag.

meid Jesus how bloody awful.

medical condition behind a child being a nasty little toe rag

Not read thread but I know a little toe rag, who I have seen time and time again go out of his way to cause harm to other children and a very in effectual mother who not once when I have been with her, has severely reprimanded and actually properly told her son off.

I teach reception and I give children who hurt any living thing a serious telling off. They know the difference. They know it is wrong. 4 is not too young.

That is awful op. I'd certainly have given it a bollocking. In fact Dh and I have spent the last week with visiting family, yelling at the small ones to stop poking the dog and generally being vile to it.

Gileswithachainsaw Yes. Some children lack empathy for reasons we don't understand. But I wouldn't say it's just for the sake of it. Even sociopaths have something wrong with how their brain is wired. You're right, not every asshole comes from a toxic household. Some kids are entitled and undisciplined shits that need a foot up their ass.

However, and perhaps I am projecting a bit here, in my family you did not turn your family into SS. You learned to look the other way and move on. My mother saw my cousins being abused, she knew about it, and did nothing. It was just a thing you didn't do, and to do so could get you ostracized.

Or since they are your family, it could be denial that a family member is capable of abuse. How many families get torn apart when someone comes out with sexual abuse? Not saying this is the case by any means, I'm just saying that just because you're related doesn't mean you know what goes on behind closed doors.

Some families look happy and ok from the outside, but from the inside they're falling apart. Children in dysfunctional families are taught from an early age to hide the dysfunction.

Yes, she did have every right to be angry. Every right. If someone hit my dog, I'd be furious. But, after I calmed down, I would have a talk to see what was going on to make sure they knew that I would still be there as a lifeline (this is coming from someone who's lifelines saved her life whether they even know it or not). I'd give an appropriate punishment that would teach them something. I wouldn't disown a child though. Punishments should be teaching moments (even if it is rudimentary as "don't fucking do it!"), and I'm not confident this really taught him anything if she never gave him another chance.

I think "Love me when I deserve it the least, because that's when I need it most" applies double for children. They only have limited experience and are only acting within the parameters they understand. Until you are an adult and out of a toxic environment, you don't understand fresh air until you breath it.

Oh please don't get me wrong ADHD

I do see what you are saying. And I don't think you are wrong. Just saying that whilst your approach is probably the correct one for many children. Others (and I'd include myself in that although I wasn't violent towards people or animals) would see the "is anything worrying you...." Style approach coming a mile off and spun a right story to get themselves off the hook.

I'm sorry for what happened to your family

Well, that's why you punish them first and talk afterwards. Children know how to manipulate from an early age. It's like when you put a child in time out. You punish them first to let them know the behavior is absolutely unacceptable, then talk afterwards so they understand why what they did was wrong. That way when they talk there's no motive either way for what they're saying. Even if they are in dire circumstances, their behavior is still unacceptable and you need to stop it before they continue the cycle if there is one.

I've done it with plenty of kids that I've watched. I babysat a small child who got verbally abusive, and said stuff that a young child would not understand on their own. I put him in time out so he knew it was wrong, then we had a talk about hurtful words. Then asked where he heard those things. Turns out his father he was visiting on weekends was saying that to him. I told the mother about it, she dismissed it and never hired me again. I was a teenager, but I think if I could go back in time and understood there was such a service, I'd report him to CPS so they could look into it. But I like to hope that it registered somewhere with him that saying something like that was wrong, and therefore his father was doing something wrong.

In any case, I'm not sure I'd allow DD to hang around with a child that abused animals like that. If it is a glimpse into the home environment it's not somewhere I'd want her to be around, and even if it's not I don't want her to think that's acceptable behavior since adults are condoning it.

Pschyopaths are raised that way by parents like this mother. Hopefully some other influence will take over to prevent this poor little girl from becoming a vile, dangerous adult. I'd tell the mother what I think of her failure to parent and express pity for the child tbh. I think children are failed when adults indulge their shit parents.

If this stupid woman got challenged everywhere she went, she'd be pushed to change. It's miraculous what people are capable of when their behaviour is publicly rejected.

I would have flipped at both the child & the mother and not given a shit if she was one if those mothers who doesn't like her precious child told off.

My niece once kicked my parents dog because the dog stole her apple earlier in the day. I saw what she did and really told her off saying that only horrid people hurt animals and she isn't a horrid person. I think she was quite shocked at being told off because it rarely happens and then went running to my SIL. My SIL then came up to me saying I shouldn't have told her off as the dog (a spaniel) had knocked her over a while ago (!).

I said to her that it was still unacceptable. My dd is 2 and if she hits the dog she gets told off. I know that she's not aware of hurting the dog but I've always taught her to be gentle with animals and most of the time she is.

This mothers attitude is disgusting.

Kid's going to grow up a psycho. Mum'll end up like Norman Bates' Mum too.

I feel for you op, what a horrible thing. I think you need to talk to the mum. Perhaps she thinks this is some kind of norm. It's not normal, it's totally disturbing and unacceptable. The child needs to be taught not to behave this way. By not saying sonething I think you are actually causing harm too - this needs to be confronted. I'm sorry if that sounds extreme, but this really could be the thin end of a very unpleasant wedge.

Thanks for all the replies. Am absolutely horrified btw about the poster who said about the 6 year old who broke a kittens jaw

I'm definitely going to speak to her mum, but I'm gutted as I think she'll take massive offence. It will probably be the end of our friendship tbh. we have been friends since we were 15 but I can't keep my mouth shut about this. Gosh it really disappoints me how some people can be such shitty parents!

I couldn't be friends with someone who thought this was in any way less than horrific.

I would be so upset to have even seen that. I'd probably have taken the poor little thing home too although I doubt there's much to be done for it. I doubt I could have kept my mouth shut either but I known for opening my big gob !

That's a horrible story OP and YANBU. I understand that the NSPCC and RSPCA now work together sometimes, as they have worked out that people who are cruel to pets/animals are often also cruel to their children. I don't really blame the 4 year old - she needs to be taught to be kind if she doesn't have innate kindness. I blame the mother. None of my children would ever have done this. It wouldn't cross their mind to be cruel to another living thing. But then, no one has (fortunately) ever been cruel to them.

How horrible OP. Bad enough that the child was deliberately hurting a living creature, but even worse that her mum laughed it off.

I would seriously reconsider the friendship. I once ended a very good friendship for very similar reasons. My DD was friends with her DD, and both the mum and the DD were lovely- we were very close. However her DS was just... not a nice boy. He was quite a bit older though, ten or eleven. He used to be so sweet and caring to the younger children when adults were around, but then he used to encourage them to come into his room/bottom of the garden etc, and the next thing they'd be running back screaming that B had pushed them/hit them.

The final straw came when he threw an injured crow against the wall of his house, to kill it, and told his mum that 'it made him feel good'. I had enough by that stage

From what I hear through the grapevine, he hasn't improved