Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be shocked at 4 year old attacking a little bird and her mum not doing anything

96 replies

littleSpud · 11/08/2014 17:23

I was at my friends the other day and my dd (5) and friends dd (4) were playing in the garden

my dd came running in really distressed saying is hurting a bird!!! please come and stop her!! I went out to find friends dd chasing this poor little creature around whacking it with a tennis raquet, I took it out of her hands and said (feebly, as I daren't tell her off as its Not The Done Thing in my circle of mates Hmm ) awww please don't hurt the bird! I think the poor little thing might have been injured to start with as it clearly couldn't fly off :(

well her mum did not give a shit and barely even told her off, I made my excuses to leave just after that and I don't think I want to go there for a while tbh :(

i think her dd is a spoilt spiteful little sod anyway (she bullies and dominates my dd the moment my back is turned) but I think twatting a living creature with a blunt object goes beyond the normal realm of four year old naughtiness. and I am disappointed in her mum.

(she also has pet rabbits, I fear for them tbh )

OP posts:
PhaedraIsMyName · 11/08/2014 18:16

I don't agree a 4 year old doesn't understand or have sufficient empathy to realise this is wrong.

I don't think I've ever met a 4 year old who didn't react warmly and enthusiastically to living , small furred and feathered things.

Bettercallsaul1 · 11/08/2014 18:18

If children are not showing empathy at four - and many are - then this is an area that needs to be worked on. The vast majority of four-year-olds test I have worked with could understand - both intellectually and at an emotional level - that if you wouldn't like something done to you, you should not do it to someone else. One of the best ways to develop empathy in young children is to frequently read stories where one of the characters is suffering in some way and discuss how we (the child and the reader) would feel in that situation and stress how alike we all are. Children of this age can generally identify "good" and "bad" characters who either help or harm others. It is the duty of parents to help develop empathy in their children - here, the child's mother is failing badly.

HappyAgainOneDay · 11/08/2014 18:22

I agree with everyone else. What sort of bird was it? Small as in robin?

ADHDNoodles · 11/08/2014 18:29

TidyDancer Agreed. Which is why reacting with such extreme outrage would be more detrimental to the child and situation. The child is acting that way for a reason (be it lack of discipline or abuse). It would be better to sit down and ask why they're doing it, explain that hurting living creatures is wrong, and ask if someone has ever hurt them. Sometimes, outrage is more self serving to the person getting upset.

It also really depends on other behavior patterns. My brother used to stomp on frogs and he's the gentlest person I know. But he had to be taught to not stomp on frogs because it's wrong. I cracked open bird eggs to see what was inside. I wouldn't dream of hurting a living creature as an adult (except, you know.. spiders). Other than that we were generally well mannered children. Some kids are curious about how the world works and figure it out through self exploration. Others learn by books and explanations. It shouldn't be condoned mind you, but in and of itself it's not a sign of anything.

Some kids, even abused ones, that hurt animals grow up just fine and would never dream of doing something to hurt anyone as adults and choose to break the cycle. Some kids end up in jail or as abusers themselves. But it is a warning sign that they might need intervention or even a positive presence in their life.

Cheeky76890 · 11/08/2014 18:32

All my 4 year olds were empathic. I'd start to worry if they weren't as it isn't the norm. At 4 they have a basic idea of right and wrong.

Tiredemma · 11/08/2014 18:33

I think a 4 year old doing this is different to a 10 year old doing this.

The 4 year old would not have the empathy to recognise that this is a 'cruel' act.

Its no indication of issues pertaining to violence in the future.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE · 11/08/2014 18:37

Really Tired? I think they do.

I would have bollocked her and told the mum if she had a problem with this she could shove our 'friendship' up her arse. Poor little bird Sad

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine · 11/08/2014 18:42

I find children who are cruel to anImals frightening and adults who ignore it despicable.

The child would have felt the tennis racket on his little arse from me unless one of my children had got there first.

Vile behaviour op yanbu.

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine · 11/08/2014 18:44

My 4 year olds wouldn't dream of hurting any creature.

They were brought up better.

Dontgotosleep · 11/08/2014 18:46

That's disgusting. At 4 though her mother is to blame. Mind you even a for y.o knows it's wrong to inflict hurt on a living thing, well you would think at that age they have some if not all of their emotional development.
I'm not one of those where I always blame the parents, because you get some lovely parents and their children are nasty little blighters. However in this case although I doubt her mother said "Darling go out and hurt a little bird", but from what you write I don't think she told her not to do it either. How is your little one. It must have been quite upsetting for her. Thankfully she is compassionate toward animals.
Oh 4 the record no Y.N.B.U.

maninawomansworld · 11/08/2014 18:48

If it were me, I'd have had to let DW deal with it as kids (or adults for that matter) being mean to animals really pushes my buttons and I'd probably have been way too hard on the child.

I caught a nephew of ours hitting one of my dogs once (totally unprovoked) when we were looking after him. He went to his room for the rest of the weekend. He literally set foot outside the room to go to the loo and that's it for the next 36 hours. DW said I was too harsh but I don't care. He's never been invited back in the 2 years since.

puddymuddles · 11/08/2014 18:51

I agree with drudge. I am not always great at discipline and 3 year old DD can be a right little madam but she would never dream of hurting an animal, it just wouldn't occur to her, this little girl has problems.

drudgetrudy · 11/08/2014 18:55

Most 4 year olds have some basic sense of empathy and often have a particular affinity for small animals-moreso than with people sometimes!

PhaedraIsMyName · 11/08/2014 18:55

Unless the 4 year old had development difficulties I find it very hard to believe a 4 year old can't see this is wrong.

I recall when my son had only just started to speak that we had to turn off the TV if a certain ad involving the Andrex puppy came on. The puppy got wrapped up in loo paper and he thought it was hurt. He used to burst into tears.

At around 4 we found him collecting up the snails from their (preferred) cold, wet and damp spot in our garden and putting them in the sun because it was much nicer than the cold wet place they were in. (We did explain the snails preferred being cold and damp and that was why they were now hiding in their shells and he put them all back)

That is a child expressing empathy albeit he got it wrong from the snails' pov. If he had no empathy he'd have left them where they were. If he wanted to be cruel he'd have crushed them.

Gileswithachainsaw · 11/08/2014 18:58

I don't believe it either tbh.

Both my dds have known from a very young age that if you hit someone or an animal it hurts. It can take time to teach how to stroke them or hold them properly but they would know that hitting an animal hurts or kills them.

TaliZorahVasNormandy · 11/08/2014 18:58

Isnt harming small animals as children, a precursor to violent behaviour in adult life. I'd be furious if my DD was caught doing that.

The mum might have a few nasty things to deal with when the kid is older.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 11/08/2014 19:01

Bollocks to this idea that small children can't understand cruelty or feel empathy. This child was deliberately hurting creatures for fun, every NT 4 year old knows what hurting animals means.

JapaneseMargaret · 11/08/2014 19:01

Well, for starters at 4, children don't really understand the concept of death or cruelty beyond "don't do it, it's bad". They don't understand empathy and are still in the cause and effect stage. So I wouldn't write off the 4 year old as having issues beyond lack of discipline if this is a one off.

Sorry, but a really crucial word is missing here: 'some'.

Some 4YO children don't understand, and some don't have any empathy.

Many, many very much do, and at younger than 4, as well.

Age is not a get out of jail free card on something like this.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE · 11/08/2014 19:04

Yes, the psychopathic 4 year olds don't have an understanding of death or cruelty.

Noregretsatall · 11/08/2014 19:05

If you are genuinely concerned about the welfare of those bunnies, then you should report them to the RSPCA. I can't abide cruelty to animals no matter who's doing it. I really couldn't live with myself otherwise.

storytopper · 11/08/2014 19:05

I worked in a young offenders' prison for about 18 months. Many of the young men there told me they had been involved in abusing animals when they were younger - it was tolerated and even encouraged in their families and neighbourhoods - thought of as funny. Many went on to do worse hence their presence in jail.

I'm not saying that your friends DD will end up being a career criminal but I would have zero tolerance for anything like this at any age.

RiverTam · 11/08/2014 19:06

I would be furious at this, and would damn well make sure any child I saw doing this knew why.

I wouldn't be seeing them again and if the mother asks why I would tell her, in no uncertain terms.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 11/08/2014 19:07

Ditch the friend.

Tiredemma · 11/08/2014 19:07

Why do you think that the age of Criminal Responsibility in England is 10 years old?

TidyDancer · 11/08/2014 19:07

ADHDNoodles - I agree with you completely. I suspect that by the time the child my mum knew was removed from the home, it was far too late to undo what had been done so far. Like I said, it was part of a much wider set of behaviour, that was one particularly nasty aspect.