Breastfeeding on Cross Country trains - a horrid experiance

[Paulala]

Hello ladies, I'm a first time poster & a first time mum so apologies if I introduce myself by way of a horrid experience but I'd like to know if you think I'm being unreasonable.

I've just taken my first train journey with my 7 month old boy, we were travelling alone to Derby with everything we needed for a week on a Cross Country train. Everything was going ok until we returned to our seat from a nappy change. The nappy change itself was quite upsetting for him, being strapped to a table in a moving urine soaked metal cubical isn't very pleasant, but I hadn't expected a lot from the facilities.

I intended to give him a breastfeed at our seat but when we got there the seat beside us was occupied (we were in a set on 2 seats not a table of 4). I asked the man sitting in the seat if it would be possible for him to move to one of the single vacant seats 3 rows up just while I breastfed so I could have a little bit of privacy. He said No & stated that was the seat he was allocated why should he move.

I asked him again saying my baby needed to be fed, he was hungry & distressed & there were empty seats in view he could use. He said I should move there instead, this really wouldn't have helped as they were single aisle seats & would have meant I'd have to feed even more publicly. I was so upset I asked him if he expected me to breastfeed in the seat beside him with him watching & he just shrugged his shoulders.

At this point everyone close by was aware of the situation & I'm still standing in the aisle with an upset baby, this man hasn't even got up to allow us to sit down. The ticket inspector then arrives & I explain to him that the man in the seat beside us is causing a lot of distress with his insistence on sitting there while I breastfed. Anyone who's traveled by train will know neighbouring seats offer no prospect of personal space.

I fully understand his right to the seat he booked but both he & I could see other seats he could have taken until I stopped feeding then he could have returned to the seat he booked when we finished. I'm sure many men would have been totally ok with doing that. Instead he was nasty & snarly & the thought of him watching me feed my baby in such a tight space was horrible. I had no option but to ask the ticket inspector to help me find another seat & to help me move all my things, we would also need the assistant at Derby station to be made aware we'd be on another carriage. All because this man would not move 3 rows up.

Still seating stubbornly in his seat the man recognised how upset he'd made me & stated loudly to everyone, right I'll move & asked the guard what he was going to do about it. The guard then said we'll sit you in first class sir don't worry about it you will be ok there. I couldn't believe it he'd made me suffer through a very public request to breastfeed privately (or as private as I could be) he'd initially insisted he would not move while I did so & left me feeling like I shouldn't be breastfeeding on a train, all while I stood with a distressed baby in a moving carriage while everyone watched. When the man eventually moved I sat & fed my baby & cried it was the worst breastfeeding experience I've ever had.

I have to travel back next week with the same train company & I'm dreading it, I can't express milk & I'm really worried something similar will happen again. I think trains should have a breastfeeding policy which recognises a womans need for privacy and a bit of respect. Not a system where men are rewarded for making women feel bad about the need to feed their babies. Do you think I'm being unreasonable?

Cheers ladies,
Paula

[katese11]

on a practical note, a 7 month old should be strong enough to sit up with support, so in confined spaces it might be easier to sit them up in the Crook of your elbow and kinda point a nipped their way
Takes up less space than the lying down position... Not so comfortable and takes some practice though (and I'm sure I haven't explained it well) Still, was a life saver on a crowded tube!

[ravenAK]

I bf all 3 of mine on trains at one time or another SweetSummer - & I'm a strapping lass who fills a train seat. It wasn't a problem at all.

If the person in the other seat complained, then OP would have a grievance - but he was minding his own business.

The easy solution is - as suggested by PP- a F&F railcard. Two seats, cheaper than one. Everyone happy - & yes, hindsight, so something to think about next time.

I'd defend to the hilt any mother's right to bf her child, wherever, whenever. Her right to disrupt other people going about their day - no. The other customer had a perfect right to expect other passengers not to interfere with his use of the seat he'd booked.

[PhaedraIsMyName]

places should "have a breastfeeding policy which recognises a woman's need for privacy and a bit of respect"

Well many places do. There was a thread a while back where a poster had given a shoe department assistant hell(and almost unanimously praised for doing so) for even mentioning to a breastfeeding mother that the department store had a mother and baby room.

[Wantsunshine]

Poor chap did have a horrid experience on the train. Can't believe you expected him to move.

[greenbananas]

Op, I do so wish you had said "okay then" and whipped a whole breast out, without any attempt at covering up. The law entitles you to do so (2010 equality act)

Of course, I fully understand why you didn't do this. Perhaps you were being unreasonable, expecting him to move, but it does sound like he was being a bit horrible.

I recommend wearing clothes which enable you to breastfeed without anyone noticing. Have a Google for ideas (I find short vest tops under longer tops with baggy necks are useful - you can pull the vest top - but maybe you are more fashionable and clothes conscious than me!)

Don't worry about it, hopefully you will deal with it better next time - and I would hide this thread now if I were you!!

[ravenAK]

Actually - does it matter that the other customer was a bloke?

I'd have moved for you, OP, if it made your life easier & there were other free seats - although if the conductor came round/someone else got on who'd booked the seat I'd moved to obviously that would be tough - I'd have to move back.

But being an ex-bf'er myself I'd also have been happy to hold the baby/your bag etc whilst you got yourself sorted.

would you have been OK to share your double seat with a friendly female passenger, or would that have been just as awkward?

[YourKidsYourRulesHunXxx]

Aw OP, I feel sorry for you. My DP was sat next to me last week on the train when I was BFing so I thought I had privacy, until I looked up and saw that the luggage rack was extremely reflective and other passengers in front and behind me would have seen my bap hanging out very clearly. I decided to BF in the toilet from then on as I'm not the most discreet of feeders- my son can be enthusiastic at times, and it is hard not to be all knockers and skin flapping about the place I need to invest in some sort of shawl, but I'm rarely caught out in situations like that iyswim.

I'm sorry that the man was rude Unfortunately, you cannot really expect the train to do much regarding facilities. Perhaps try and deal with your personal issues re. public breastfeeding- it will be a weight off of your shoulders once you get over the fear. Not everyone is watching you.

The people on here saying things like 'You made a scene' and 'well done' should stop being so nasty. I know this is AIBU but come on- how about reassuring the OP, she sounds very nervous about BFing in public. We're supposed to be parents supporting one another.

[Inertia]

Speaking as a very vocal supporter of women who choose to breastfeed in public, I think you are being unreasonable about this. Nobody tried to stop you feeding your baby. I do understand that it's quite a personal thing to do with a stranger squished up next to you - to be honest the only way to avoid that would be for you to book two seats.

Perhaps you could consider asking the train companies to allocate a section of seating which is bf friendly - bit like the quiet carriage.

[ThatsNotWhatISaid]

YABVU very, very , very unreasonable. Why on earth would you think he would want to look at you bf.

[ThatsNotWhatISaid]

The thing that stuck me as really odd about the OP is that the man hadn't already moved. I would hate to have to sit next to a 7 month old. Even a cute one. It would be very cramped and 7 month olds are wiggly. I always sit as far away from babies as I possibly can.


(Yes , I have kids)

[Yamyoid]

Op, I think you're getting an unfair flaming.

The man's attitude, from your post, sounds hostile and it would've been kind to move or at least to say something to put you at ease so you felt comfortable feeding next to him.

It's a horrible, stressful experience travelling by public transport with a baby and luggage. You have my sympathy.

[browneyedgirl86]

I think YABU. Sorry.

The man was in his seat, it would have been nice if he had moved when you asked but he didn't have to. Surely if you are the one that needs privacy then you could have moved? What if the train was full? What would you have suggested the man do then?

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Yabu

[Princesspond]

Yabu - I've had to bf on an over-crowded bus in Majorca. My husband had been pushed further down the bus - I was squashed in an aisle seat with people crammed together standing over me. That's public transport, you just get on with it, the only other option was a screaming baby

[TheFantasticFixit]

I think you weren't particularly unreasonable to ask if this chap minded moving whilst you fed, and it's a shame he refused.

However..

You then made a scene.

I say this as a breastfeeder: breastfeeding a baby, and/or travelling with a baby, does not give you any trump card over your fellow passenger. If you had a load of stuff with you, that's your problem, no one else's. If you wished to feed in private, or even in more comfort, you should have booked more than one seat. And after this bloke refused to move, you should have spoken to the guard to find a place you felt was more suited to feeding.

Whilst it would have been a nice gesture from this man to move for you, it is not your right to demand - which you practically did - that he moves from his allocated seat. He has no right to insist you move either. Travelling with a baby on a train is shitty, i've done it many times with DD1 and 2 and it doesn't get easier either (DD1 is now 2.5 so she now likes to 'explore'..argh). Train travel in the UK is poor, and not conducive to 'easy parenting'.

Next time, book 2 seats (that earlier tip about family railcard is brilliant) or drive if you like comfort and privacy.

[greenbananas]

If this had been my dh, I know he would have moved for you. If there were no other available seats, he would have told you not to worry, then turned his back and provided a shield so that no one else could see you.

Of course that man was entitled to his seat, but it does sound like he was being pointlessly difficult and unsympathetic to a first time mum.

(I speak as someone who has shamelessly fed my babies wherever I chose, even when they were two years old and even friendly old ladies were tutting slightly)

[ZenNudist]

Sorry but yabu and OTT. Can't believe you made such a scene, how mortifying. Surely you'd have felt less exposed by wapping both boobs out and shouting 'hey everyone look at me I'm breastfeeding!'

I think you have to chalk this act of insanity up to new mum wibble-ness and on the way back do not attempt to move anyone out of their paid for seat so your pfb can feed .

It's hard to bf discretely at first. Nipples previously used to being under wraps get more fresh air than you're used to. Suggest threading a muslin through your bra strap for extra coverage either side of baby's head. Also buy some comfy feeding tops to help you feel more confident.

Personally I don't care any more if someone gets a flash of boob skin. It's not sexy and they can just jog on. In time you'll toughen up. Expecting a (male) guard to understand your fragile hormonal sleep deprived state is unrealistic. Not everyone gives new mums sympathy. Some people are thick/insensitive/self absorbed. That's life, don't worry about it.

[itsbetterthanabox]

Yabu. If you want privacy you need to find it yourself. The man could have booked that seat for a specific reason. I don't understand why you couldn't just go and sit on the other empty seats? You wouldn't have someone sitting right next to you then. I would just have started feeding but if you have privacy issues do you not have a shawl/cover anyway? No one tried to stop you breast feeding, no one stared or actually tried to make you uncomfortable.

[Shazam24]

Wow some o you posters are coming across as really nasty!! Poor OP. Definetly an unfair flaming poor lady.

Op if you can why dont you book an extra seat for your journey home? Yes its going to cost more but you'll have a bit more privacy and extra room.

Dont take the nasty comments on board. Once one person starts being rude people like to jump on the bandwagon x

[Numanoid]

YABVU.

It's a train, and privacy, unfortunately, shouldn't be expected. He booked the seat in advance, and sat in it. You asked him to move, he said no. That should have been the end of it. By keeping at him, you probably made him feel uncomfortable too. Had it been me in that seat, I would probably have got my book out and stopped listening, because I'd be so embarrassed at being petitioned to move.

[Surfsup1]

Well, was not obliged to move simply because you asked him to, but manners are not about obligations.
I'm not too sure why you needed two seats to bf, especially as you're clearly not new to the process, but I do understand that some people aren't as comfortable bfing in public. You asked him politely and I would think that any kind, polite, friendly person would simply move - regardless of whether they or not they HAD to. It's not like you were asking him to inconvenience himself for more than the couple of seconds it would take him to stand up and sit down again.

It does beg the question, though, as to what you planned to do if there were not any spare seats?

I don't think you did anything 'wrong', but I think you were maybe being a bit precious. So YAB a bit U, but so was the man.

[impatientlywaiting]

OP I do think you were being unreasonable, however the guy was a bit of an arse not to move.

If I'd been sitting next to you I would have moved at your request but thought you were being entitled to ask.

I read your thread with nervous interest as next Friday I'm travelling 3 hours on a train and it's the one time that I'm feeling a tad nervous about breastfeeding my 3 month old. But was relieved/irritated when I read your post.

My fears stemmed from being in an enclosed place if anyone else decided to be unreasonably nasty about me feeding, whereas you seem to be the one who has caused the upset.

I wouldn't dream of asking the person next to me to move. I perhaps would have apologised to them for the baby encroaching on their space in the hope they would choose to move to another seat so I didn't need to contort my body in order not to have the baby dangling on them, but I never would have asked them to leave. I would have said the same to them if I'd been feeding my baby from a bottle - re their space.

Like others have said it was you, not the baby who felt the need for a bit of privacy, so why should your feelings trump another passenger? (Although again I do think the other passenger was mean not to just carry out your request.)

In my opinion if you feel uncomfortable feeding in public you should take action to make yourself feel better, I have about 5 muslin squares in my bag so I can tuck one into my bra strap to cover me if I so wish, just last week I fed my baby standing up in a queue in Dublin Airport and I genuinely think that most people didn't realise what I was doing, and I didn't care in the slightest that some did realise.

I also think the guard might have been more sympathetic if you'd gone to him first and explained you were uncomfortable rather than having a go at another passenger for not inconveniencing himself for you.

[Surfsup1]

Numanold - please don't take this as an attack, but I'm genuinely curious as to why you wouldn't just move if a Mum with a baby asked politely for a little extra space to feed her baby?

I guess that question also goes for anyone else who feels they would have refused to move.

[MrsMook]

YABU, you created the scene. Simply returning to your seat and getting on with feeding your baby would have atracted far less attention than assuming that the man will perv over you and generating an argument. A train isn't the comfiest of places to feed a baby, the last time I had to do it, DS was over 1, so rather an armful. The man opposite just smiled then resumed minding his own business which has been the reaction thay I've had pretty much every time I've been acknowledged during the course of feeding two babies in public.

The ticket inspector gave you the outcome that you requested; moving the man. I doubt a desperate hungry baby would be gratefully received in first class.

Why would the staff in Derby need to be aware of a seat change? They check tickets by the front and rear exits. They have no interest in where you were sitting.