Breastfeeding on Cross Country trains - a horrid experiance

[Paulala]

Hello ladies, I'm a first time poster & a first time mum so apologies if I introduce myself by way of a horrid experience but I'd like to know if you think I'm being unreasonable.

I've just taken my first train journey with my 7 month old boy, we were travelling alone to Derby with everything we needed for a week on a Cross Country train. Everything was going ok until we returned to our seat from a nappy change. The nappy change itself was quite upsetting for him, being strapped to a table in a moving urine soaked metal cubical isn't very pleasant, but I hadn't expected a lot from the facilities.

I intended to give him a breastfeed at our seat but when we got there the seat beside us was occupied (we were in a set on 2 seats not a table of 4). I asked the man sitting in the seat if it would be possible for him to move to one of the single vacant seats 3 rows up just while I breastfed so I could have a little bit of privacy. He said No & stated that was the seat he was allocated why should he move.

I asked him again saying my baby needed to be fed, he was hungry & distressed & there were empty seats in view he could use. He said I should move there instead, this really wouldn't have helped as they were single aisle seats & would have meant I'd have to feed even more publicly. I was so upset I asked him if he expected me to breastfeed in the seat beside him with him watching & he just shrugged his shoulders.

At this point everyone close by was aware of the situation & I'm still standing in the aisle with an upset baby, this man hasn't even got up to allow us to sit down. The ticket inspector then arrives & I explain to him that the man in the seat beside us is causing a lot of distress with his insistence on sitting there while I breastfed. Anyone who's traveled by train will know neighbouring seats offer no prospect of personal space.

I fully understand his right to the seat he booked but both he & I could see other seats he could have taken until I stopped feeding then he could have returned to the seat he booked when we finished. I'm sure many men would have been totally ok with doing that. Instead he was nasty & snarly & the thought of him watching me feed my baby in such a tight space was horrible. I had no option but to ask the ticket inspector to help me find another seat & to help me move all my things, we would also need the assistant at Derby station to be made aware we'd be on another carriage. All because this man would not move 3 rows up.

Still seating stubbornly in his seat the man recognised how upset he'd made me & stated loudly to everyone, right I'll move & asked the guard what he was going to do about it. The guard then said we'll sit you in first class sir don't worry about it you will be ok there. I couldn't believe it he'd made me suffer through a very public request to breastfeed privately (or as private as I could be) he'd initially insisted he would not move while I did so & left me feeling like I shouldn't be breastfeeding on a train, all while I stood with a distressed baby in a moving carriage while everyone watched. When the man eventually moved I sat & fed my baby & cried it was the worst breastfeeding experience I've ever had.

I have to travel back next week with the same train company & I'm dreading it, I can't express milk & I'm really worried something similar will happen again. I think trains should have a breastfeeding policy which recognises a womans need for privacy and a bit of respect. Not a system where men are rewarded for making women feel bad about the need to feed their babies. Do you think I'm being unreasonable?

Cheers ladies,
Paula

[ravenAK]

Nope, you have every right to feed your child in your seat. Turfing some random chap out of his, not so much.

It's a good tip about the F&F railcard. An adult + child fare with is cheaper than an adult without, & then you have two booked seats.

Can't think why I never thought of that one!

[heythatsnotme]

CarryOn - I am very pro-breast feeding, which largely explains my response here. Had the poster stated she had breastfed and had a negative response from the man in question I would be fully in support of her, but instead she has used the fact she is breast feeding to try to have her wishes met.

That's unfair for two reasons: firstly it suggests that people need privacy to breastfeed, which isn't the case - laws state women can breastfeed wherever they wish, and rightly so - and secondly, suggests that any request should be met if made by a woman who wishes to feed her child.

[itiswhatitiswhatitis]

I don't think anyone here has an issue with breast feeding and apparently the man on the train didn't either. No ones having a pop at the OP for feeding on a train.

[showtunesgirl]

OP you made a big scene and it really didn't warrant it. You could have just got on with it sitting next to him and it would've been fine.

I'm not sure why you thought you needed special treatment.

And I'm also a natural term breastfeeder.

[SweetSummerSweetPea]

Nope, you have every right to feed your child in your seat.

I can barely read a paper or a book on a train with someone sat next to me on a train let alone feed a baby.

Op for a first timer you have conjured up a classic MN scenario...I suspect this debate will rage on for a good few days"

[PhaedraIsMyName]

There were other empty seats but he was the one who was supposed to move?

I don't understand why OP needed 2 seats.

YABVU.

[Andrewofgg]

Male speaking. I would have stayed put but closed my book and sat back with my eyes shut, and asked you to let me know when you had finished. Would that have met your concerns?

[smellyfishead]

Nothing about being bitter carryon!! many of us have fed our babies whenever, wherever, sometimes its not the most convenient or easiest place but I for one have always just got on with it with minimal fuss. friends of mine who were more self aware just bought feeding aprons/scarfs or used a muslin tucked into bra strap, its not rocket science.

But carry on you have contradicted yourself in your last paragraph?! why should a baby being fed comfortably trump the needs of another paying passenger, its the mother feeding responsibility to breatfeed her infant comfortably,not the other passangers!

[PiperRose]

Carryondancing I find your post completely judgemental. I don't have children, I fully support a woman's right to breast-feed anywhere she bloody well likes, but if I had paid extra for an allocated seat I wouldn't have moved either.

I do not have any less rights than a breast-feeding baby.

[ouryve]

I don't think a slightly arsey person sat next to you is really Crosscountry's fault.

And yy to the ticket vs booking thing - I travelled on CC trains with DS1 today and had to show our reservations with our tickets. If you felt that awkward about nursing next to a stranger and couldn't possibly cover up with a shawl, blanket, muslin cloth etc, then you should probably have booked a child seat for your baby, so you could have both seats to yourself.

[ravenAK]

But SweetSummer.

I'd rather have a double seat to read the paper, too.

But if some other customer has booked & paid for t'other seat, I can't have it.

It's not the other chap's obligation to move - if OP thinks she can't bf in a single train seat, she needs to anticipate this before making her journey & make arrangements that don't rely on booting someone else out of their booked seat.

[Dieu]

Had you booked your seat, OP? What if the man had moved to an empty seat, as you requested, but it turned out that they too had been reserved for people getting on later? He ought to have just moved, as this was the decent thing to do, but it shouldn't have been expected of him.

[MrTumblesCrackWhore]

I must admit, I only scan read your post first time and thought it was going to be about him being nasty and snarly about you breastfeeding next to him, not about the fact (upon re-reading) that he just wanted to keep his seat. It sounds like he didn't give a toss about you bfeeding and that is is you who made a big deal out of it. I would have been insulted, if I were him reading this, about you inferring he was 'watching'. From the facts, it sounds like you are intensely anxious or uptight about bf and you are projecting this onto the situation. If you're not either of these, then you come across as hugely entitled.

I was the former and actively avoided situations like you describe. I never once thought that I had an unequivocal right to privacy and that my needs, or my ds's, trumped anyone else's. I think back to the loss of dignity my disabled mum suffered by trying to use public transport, amongst other services, and recognise a sense of perspective has to be employed.

[PiperRose]

Also OP I think you're being very unfair on this man. You've just assumed this man actually wanted to watch you breast-feeding. Do you assume every man around you when you breast-feed in public is some sort of pervert?

[SweetSummerSweetPea]

Having re read your OP - op, yes I think the man was a complete arse and was being horrid.

No one has to do anything in this life, but it would have been very sweet of him to move for you...just whilst you fed.

I personally try and be as helpful as I can when on trains and see people struggling with babies....

I in turn have had many many kindnesses on the trains when on with my children, people really have been very very sweet....

I think you had a bad egg....ignore it and move on.

[SweetSummerSweetPea]

I'd rather have a double seat to read the paper, too .

So you do recognise how tight the seating is on trains?

Its very tight and very intimate without a babe in arms to add to it then having to get your breast out.

It took me 10 months to learn how to do that without huge circus.

[Pyjamaramadrama]

Poor op she'll probably never come back.

Sure she was being unreasonable and made a fuss, but she's a new mum, doing a long train journey with a baby and all her stuff, that's the height of a stressful situation.

The man was probably embarrassed and a bit taken aback and that's why he got arsey, (the not getting up to let op sit down). You probably both could have handled the situation better but hindsight's a wonderful thing.

Welcome to mumsnet op!

[SecretNutellaFix]

Sorry, but you are being a bit Unreasonable. You created the scene when you should have just got on with it, and no one would likely have passed comment or looked or in fact given one shiny shit about the fact an infant was being fed. You made the situation about you, not your childs' needs.

Sadly, your thinking that places should "have a breastfeeding policy which recognises a womans need for privacy and a bit of respect" is the reason why some people have been able to justify making a woman breastfeed in toilets or leave the room while visiting family.

[ilovesooty]

He didn't have a problem with you breastfeeding so I don't see why he should have had to move. If you want two seats, pay for them. You have every right to breastfeed wherever you need to but not to expect someone to move from an allocated seat. It must have been embarrassing for him as you publicly implied he'd have been unable to respect boundaries by not staring.

[MostWicked]

OP, you knew you were going on a train with your baby, so there was always a strong possibility that you would have to bf. Did you really expect to be able to do this privately? Did you expect to have 2 seats to yourself?

I think you are being ridiculous and I wouldn't have moved if was happy in my seat.
The guard did the right thing by moving the man to first class. You wanted him to move so you got what you wanted. There was no reason for you to be moved. You were complaining about him, he wasn't complaining about you.

[unlucky83]

YABU
I bf in a train toilet once...one and only time I bf in a toilet.
Also had travel assist and so was supposed to stay in reserved seat. Train was busy.
It was an aisle seat at the end of a carriage, next to the buffet car.
I was on a table opposite two older teenage boys and next to a vicar.
DD1 was about 5 months old, got hungry and started whingeing.
I covered her with a blanket to be discreet. She had different ideas - after the first few sucks she kept pushing my top up, trying to grab the opposite breast and pushing the blanket off to have a nose around! I was seriously flashing . If I tried to stop altogether she screamed. Meanwhile the whole train of people were walking back and forward to the buffet car, bumping my arm/her head. It was one of the worst experiences of my life, I felt like crying. And I went and fed her in the smelly stinking loo.
BUT It was ME that felt embarrassed/awkward. I could have braved it out.
The train company had most likely put me there because they thought it was a convenient seat - with a table, not hemmed in, next to the buffet, near the loo. If I had gone up and down the train I may have found a more suitable seat for feeding but maybe not...it was MY problem.
Travel assist was fantastic. Even without it the other passengers were fantastic -helping me on and off with my prams, car seat etc etc. It didn't put me off using the train again ....or bf...it was one of those awkward situations I don't think can be helped.
And I think the same is true in your case...
You can't expect someone to move for your convenience...it isn't as though you had nowhere to sit.

[Karoleann]

I think lots of men have seen their wives and friends breastfeed and wouldn't have been embarrassed or worried by sitting next to you breastfeeding. DH especially wouldn't have seen any need to move and therefore wouldn't have done.

If you feel that you need a bit more space next time, just book two seats, you can get them very cheaply if you book early.

[SignoraStronza]

Why should he have moved and why did you feel the need to ask? If privacy were so important, why not bit a friends and family railcard, book two seats and save some money in the process - it still works out cheaper to do it this way, even if the child is under five.

To be honest, I'd have just got on with it - as far as breastfeeding is concerned have never once asked, apologised or explained.