to wonder how Scotland's decision will affect england?

[LEMmingaround]

Just that really? If they do go their ownway how will it affect england?

Also will it open a can of worms with wales and northern Ireland?

For the purposes of my argument, it doesn't matter who was reporting the quote or whether they failed to report other things they could have reported.

What matters is whether AS said the quote attributed to him, viz. that a CU is in the best interests of the UK, as if that's for him to decide.

So an independent Scotland will keep the Queen, wants to keep Sterling, wants a currency union, will need the Bank of England as the bank of last resort, wants to stay in the EU(where it will carry no clout whatsoever) and stay in Nato?

And what is the point of all this?

The clue, nepk, is united KINGDOM. Great Britain will continue to exist, (it's a geographical term for the big island which houses England, Scotland and Wales) as will NI. The two kingdoms which united were Scotland and England, when James VI of Scotland inherited the English crown and became James I of England. He united the kingdoms under one monarch, and, with the odd blip, that's carried on. We still share a monarch in Betty, so we're still a UK, regardless of how we vote.

But as I say, that's my personal feeling, and it has become accepted to refer to iScotland and rUK, simply as shorthand. No point getting aerated about it.

Phaedra - a rush of blood to the head?

Bogeyface, as a member of 'the rest of GB', that isn't my opinion so a sweeping generalisation there I think. Isn't the position that some people think 'we could do this better on our own' and the UK is saying 'that's your choice'?

The UK isn't Scotland's parent. We are four territories comprising one union.

The point, Phaedra, is that iScotland can make it's own policies that work to make life better here. We can get rid of Trident, saving everyone billions. We can get rid of the bedroom tax, without sending £50 million to Westminster for the privilege. We can set immigration policies that address our need for an extra 2000 immigrants pa. We can get back the graduate scheme. We can keep free prescriptions, free tuition... without being at the mercy of an "austerity" mad WM, which is selling off the NHS and putting the dosh in the pockets of their pals.

iScotland makes me think it's owned by apple and rUK reminds me of how a (Yorkshire) friend refers to things that are hers... rSimon her son for example.

I'm sure they can rehash history and make the kingdoms refer to Gruffudd ap Llywelyn and Edward first or something

OldLady - so you're now not just deciding whether we join your doomed currency union, you're deciding what our country is to be called? Try telling a Macedonian "FYROM" is a shorthand.

On the technical point, surely an independent Scotland wouldn't be part of the United Kingdom. We share a sovereign with Canada, Australia and many others but no one has suggested they are part of the UK?

Scotland didn't become part of the United Kingdom until 1707 following the Acts of Union between the English and Scottish Parliaments. Much the same as Wales, though the Acts of Union were much earlier there.

It was nothing to do with James I/VI succeeding Elizabeth I to the throne.

Thank you, Shakes. :)

OldLady - You could do all those things. You could also carry on charging English students discriminatory fees for going to university...

I think I'm reverting to my earlier "Gah" response. There's this fascinating programme about undercover waitresses on the food channel which is suddenly appealing.

It is fine OldLady. I started out thinking perhaps you were being a bit over sensitive, but I am now in full agreement with you on the bashing, you could see what was coming whereas I am a newbie on the Independence threads and naively thought it would remain fairly respectful. I was wrong. FFS is pretty fitting terminology to use.

I am off to bed now so am ducking out.

Cross posted, gah!

When I read all the positives I wish that Norfolk could become independent of England.

nep as a complete outsider (I live in the US!) how is that legal? I've always wondered...

The story of how English students currently get treated in Scotland is very little known, even in England.

Here's a link which explains at all.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23279868

Basically EU law means Scotland can't discriminate against citizens of a different EU state but can if they are from the same state - i.e. English, Welsh and Northern Irish people from the current UK.

Sarcastic, as one final response (damn programme finished just as I started watching!) before I bow out... It's legal because Scotland is viewed as a region within the UK, and while it is illegal to offer different conditions for eg tuition to other EU countries, it is not illegal to have different conditions for different regions.

IMHO, if we vote yes, English students would be allowed free tuition in Scotland as long as we are both EU members, but if rUK vote to leave EU, that would be swiftly revoked. NB this is not the position of the SNP gvt, but I don't have to agree with everything they say just because I'm voting Yes. This is not a party political decision, it's a bloodless constitutional change.

The UK isn't Scotland's parent.

It was an analogy. I was merely pointing out that currently Scotland has all the benefits of making it own rules without the downside of having to pay for them.

I think that Scotland should indeed be independent and find out what it really means to stand on their own 2 (million) feet. No queen, no sterling, no Bank of England back up, no funds from the UK. Truly independent.

I suppose that if the monarch can continue to have the Fleur de Lys on the Royal Arms then the union flag can remain the same, especially as it is a component of so many Commonwealth flags.

I'm English and a quarter Welsh married to a Scot living in England (near a hell of a lot of reservoirs). DH would dearly love to have a vote.

I get weepy when I hear Flower of Scotland or a lone piper and have fond memories of Wales from my childhood. So many of us are 'mixed' now that I think we should take on the future together. Splitting apart seems a retrograde step to me and I'm saddened.

It is the dominance of London and the Home Counties that is our country's real problem and, if this were addressed properly, then maybe our entire collection of islands could prosper together. There are regions of England, Wales & NI that feel the injustice of this imbalance keenly.

Stay with us Scotland. Please.

I have a slightly unusual perspective. I am British, part English, part Welsh, born in England lived in Scotland 5 years and have a flat there. However, I am currently resident outside the UK, so I won't get a vote.
It also means I won't be eligible for Scottish citizenship, however the company I work for will still consider my 'home' base to be the city I moved abroad from and therefore my home country to be iScotland if it happens and I'll be subject to whatever changes are voted in in my absence. So then when I finish my posting and am sent 'home' it will be to a country that I'm not a Citizen of and if they don't stay in the EU I won't necessarily have any right to work in!
If they vote for independence I'll have to sell my flat as I don't trust what the Scottish government will do to a non-citizen, non-resident property owner. I also have no idea what will happen to my tax situation as the UK have a dual taxation agreement with the country I live in but there is no saying that iScotland would continue that. No idea if I would then be considered UK or iScotland domiciled anyway, flat and company 'base country' in one but born and family in the other.
I just sincerely hope they stay united - I'm British with links to many parts of that island as are many others.
However I digress, in terms of what would happen to England and Wales, not a great deal I imagine unless you are someone who regularly travels across the border. How the finances and armed forces etc will be impacted all has yet to be decided and which countries are better or worse off will depend on how much of the national debt iScotland takes and how much of the decommissioning costs (most of the oil industry infrastructure is reaching the end of its design life).

Wales would have to be crazy to want a referendum on independence. Since devolution they have managed to completely fuck up the health and education systems.

Luckily I don't think they're stupid enough to believe they could manage on their own.

If the scots want to go I think most of the rest of the uk is happy to let them. We're not the boss of them

I would be interested to see what would happen to immigration into Scotland. I for one would be seriously considering a move North (if they'd have me). I was born on the border anyway and have lived both sides. Call me naive, but I want DS to grow up in a fairer society. I can't stand the politics down here any more - it was bad enough with New Labour and the Tories but now UKIP? Seriously, what is WRONG with you people???

Bloody hell Boleh!

Sorry I have to post and run, but it is one thing to want your child to grow up in a fairer society ocelot - just no guarantee that an independent Scotland will be a fairer society. It is a much-used aspiration, that's all.

Quite a lot of people up here voted UKIP in May - not as big a percentage as the rest of the UK (I think it was around 10%) but considering they were really not a force here at all, it was a fairly surprising development. I'm of the opinion (and fervent hope) that the UKIP votes in all parts of the UK were mainly a protest vote.