to wonder how Scotland's decision will affect england?

[LEMmingaround]

Just that really? If they do go their ownway how will it affect england?

Also will it open a can of worms with wales and northern Ireland?

OldLady, I have just re-read the thread and only see three 'bashing' posts (three too many I grant you). It is mostly reasonable questions and discussion.

And Alis, yes you are right on the flag should acknowledge Wales, sorry about that.

Who is bashing Scotland? Unless you are equating not being in favour of independence as "bashing"?

As for the suggestion that Scotland can just walk away from its share of UK debt and it'll all be fine- that's a sweeping statement with little beyond Eck's crossed fingers to substantiate it.

I hope the scots vote yes, it will have next to no effect on England, Scotland will become a back water with no influence in Europe and the wider world, it's economy will be totally dominated by England with even it's interest rates set by the Bank of England, assuming they keep the pound.

If the SNP are to be believed Scotland will become a land of milk and honey with increased spending everywhere, most things will improve but everything else will stay the same, so no need to worry!

Maybe I'm oversensitive, Shakes, maybe it's just the turn it seems to have taken, but gah, just gah. I won't post any more.

No worries Oldlady, it is an emotional subject and all bashing is uncalled for. I truly hope we stay all united but the subject has brought out the worst in some people in the UK, I've been horrified by some of the nastiness I've read by posters.

Do keep posting, I think your contributions have added to the thread.

Yes do keep posting although I think you are absolutely wrong about how international banks would view a Scotland who walked away with its share of debt.

But thinking this would be an unmitigated disaster is not, no matter how much Eck and Nicola like to say it is, "doing Scotland down"

But Old Lady Scotland isn't a member of the EU. The United Kingdom is. The UK will remain a member of the EU.

Scotland will have kt negotiate joining the EU and will have to adopt the euro. Alec Salmond may not like these facts but they are true.

Ok. LittleBear. No, Scotland is not an EU member, Uk is. But the 18 months between a yes vote and Independence day on 24 March 2016 gives us time to negotiate as EU citizens (still part of UK) our continuing membership. There is no mechanism to remove us, and there us no real provision for this situation taking place. People chunter on about chapter 48 or 49, in truth neither fully apply because we are already fully EU compliant and not new applicants. We cannot adopt the Euro, because one of the five requirements to do so is to have our own currency in the Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM) for at least two years, and we don't have our own currency.

England will not be affected.

Scotland will return to being the curmudgeonly monocultural backwater it was before 1707.

Aaand there we go again...

"We don't have our own currency"

I thought you were insisting we could just keep the pound?

We can keep the £, either in a formal CU, or just use it anyway. In the former case, plainly we would need the agreement of our "partners" to put the £ into ERM, and WM have made a point of not doing so; in the latter, we couldn't put the £ into ERM any more than we could put the USA $ if we chose to use that.

What I don't get is why Alex Salmond thinks it's for him to decide what the UK's national interest is.

So we will agree to join a currency union with a foreign country (iScotland) because "it is in our interests to do so".

And these interests are now decided in Edinburgh by a tiny minority of the UK population are they?

Littlebear, although your first sentence is completely correct, I am not so sure your second one is; as far as I am aware, nobody from the European Commission has confirmed exactly what would happen.

Your second sentence is more in line with the message coming from certain media outlets. I would have thought that an independent Scotland would stay in the EU and not have to apply to join, but it would not have an automatic right to use the UK's terms of membership negotiated in 1973. But who knows... not me anyway.

As Greenland left the EEC rather than the EU, I am unsure that the situation would be identical as times have moved on, but I agree with Oldlady, I think there would be no expulsion.

Oldlady, I can only apologise for the nastiness on this thread about Scotland, as an Englishwoman I feel embarrassed by it [pack it in folks eh?] Even though I don't want the country to split, you can still respect the views of people who do.

Apologies OP, I am veering off the subject in your question

Please produce evidence that Alex thinks anything of the sort? If you're talking about last night's debate, you'll find he was referring to a panel of economics experts, including two Nobel Laureates, who have come to the considered conclusion that CU is in the best interests of rUK as well as iScotland. Alistair Darling agrees, as it happens, and so does anyone who has actually given the matter a moment of thought.

I suggest you try it.

Exhibit A. Para 5.

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/alex-salmond-currency-union-is-best-option-1-3342419

Ach, Shakes, the thread is now thoroughly derailed, and I also apologise to the OP. There are numpties on both sides, eh?

Whichever way this goes, we're all going to occupy this tiny bit of rock, I see no point in hostility either now or post indyref.

Nepk, FM takes best possible advice from experts and disseminates same. Shock, horror. You should know the Hootsmon is inclined towards No; check out who owns it.

Leaders of all the main UK political parties have also said CU won't happen.

More importantly, so has the Permanent Secretary to HM Treasury!

Btw I think "rUK" is an insulting designation. Surely it's just "the UK", whether Scotland secedes or not. It's like the pitiful "FYROM" inflicted on the poor Macedonians by the Greeks.

There certainly are Oldlady.

We'd have to share the rock and also Mumsnet AIBU so there you go OP, no change there either

I was pointing to a quote from AS, so the political affiliation of the outlet which carried it is irrelevant.

Nepk, I personally think talking about the UK splitting is technically wrong, since the "United Kingdom" won't change, as we will still have Betty (at least until we have a further referendum about becoming a republic). But that is the current term in usage; we could say former United Kingdom if you like, but that's a bit ruder when shortened to fUK, don't you think?

Nepk, you are outstandingly (and sweetly) innocent if you don't think the ownership of a paper influences what quotes/news are reported, or not reported, and how it's reported. But you carry on in your coccoon, you'll be a butterfly one day. :)

My taxes wont pay for free prescriptions for everyone in Scotland despite being on a NMW income and not being able to get them ourselves.

Let them go! Let the politicos see what independence really means. It means not being able to make laws you cant afford so being propped up by the rest of GB.

Frankly at the moment certain Scottish factions sound like stroppy teens saying to their parents "You cant tell me what to do, I am going to leave, that will teach you!" and the rest of GB is the parent saying "Go on then, bet you'll be begging to come back by Xmas!"

It's not called the United Kingdom of England and Scotland. It's called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and will continue to be whether bits of it leave or not.