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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder how Scotland's decision will affect england?

980 replies

LEMmingaround · 06/08/2014 20:35

Just that really? If they do go their ownway how will it affect england?

Also will it open a can of worms with wales and northern Ireland?

OP posts:
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6
PhaedraIsMyName · 15/08/2014 18:23

Actually thinking about it I'm fairly certain we did the clearances, definitely did the Jacobites (and thank goodness they lost)

StatisticallyChallenged · 15/08/2014 18:27

Pretty sure salmond has said that he will look to split the whole of UK accounts when it comes to assets and liabilities. But sure you just take all the assets you fancy and ignore the liability.

ghostland · 15/08/2014 18:32

Why does the government want Scotland to remain part of the UK if it wants independence?

StatisticallyChallenged · 15/08/2014 18:39

Because it thinks the UK is better as a whole? Because it could cause unrest in other areas?

And it's not definite that Scotland does want independence!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/08/2014 18:55

Pretty sure salmond has said that he will look to split the whole of UK accounts when it comes to assets and liabilities. But sure you just take all the assets you fancy and ignore the liability.

I didn't say that. If you read the link
www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmfaff/643/64306.htm

Broadly speaking the UKgov considers an iScotland to be a successor state, and rUK to be continuing state. This means that rUK continues broadly as it does at the moment, whereas iScotland is a brand new country, no share of rUK assets and no share of rUK liabilities.

Broadly speaking scotGov believes that iScotland/rUK would be "equals" in a split, splitting everything it is possible to split.

This difference of view is at the root of so many of the arguments.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/08/2014 18:56

Why does the government want Scotland to remain part of the UK if it wants independence?

Another one of its colonies gains independence, therefore loss of international reputation, "punching above weight" even more laughable.

Will cause substantial hole in rUKs finances.

CoreyTrevorLahey · 15/08/2014 18:58

Since fervent nationalism (and some of the SNP stuff is fervent in the extreme) is associated with the National Socialists of the Nazi party and similar organisations, I find the constant pushing of Scotland to become more like parts of Scandinavia very distasteful

What a vile thing to say. I am no Nationalist and reject the principles of nationalism but I happen to know a fair amount of committed SNP-ers. We differ politically but to compare such people to Nazis, murderers, genocidal maniacs... how dare you? How utterly disrespectful to those who suffered because of the Nazis.

And I've asked if you're a name-changer before too, but got no answer. Your (offensive) statements about the KGB and the Stasi are awfully reminiscent of someone who had some pretty insensitive stuff to say after the Clutha.

Apologies if it's not you, because I wouldn't want to be mistaken for that person.

StatisticallyChallenged · 15/08/2014 19:01

We're not a bloody colony Ffs -that's actually offensive to those countries which experienced colonial rule. And ignores the fact that an awful lot of the colonists were scots.

OOAOML · 15/08/2014 19:04

Statistically got in first, so I'll just say "What She Said".

Wink
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/08/2014 19:06

We're not a bloody colony Ffs -that's actually offensive to those countries which experienced colonial rule.

I completely agree! Which is why it is weird that so much of the rhetoric from the UKgov is so colonial in nature, starting from the very basic assumption that Scotland and rUK are not equal in the union hence why WM wish to treat independence in the same way as former colonies (continuing/succession) as opposed to the splitting of shared sovereignty (separation)

PhaedraIsMyName · 15/08/2014 19:11

Another one of its colonies gains independence, therefore loss of international reputation, "punching above weight" even more laughable

I'll just third how ridiculous that comment is.

And it's pretty blinkered to deny just how much weight the UK does carry on an international level.

OOAOML · 15/08/2014 19:11

Well we are a fraction of the UK population, do you mean equal as in 50/50?

StatisticallyChallenged · 15/08/2014 19:12

Oh god comment just seen on Facebook... I'm sure even the yes will get my irritation... For every 10 spent on nhs in rest of UK, 1 is spent in Scotland....

Erm... Yes... We're about 8% of the population!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/08/2014 19:19

We are equal in terms of ability to be an independent country. Obviously not a 50:50 split, I'd imagine a starting point would be 90:10 on non geographical assets/liabilities

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/08/2014 19:20

Ah, Facebook is where the most in depth and educated analysis can be found Grin

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/08/2014 19:23

And it's pretty blinkered to deny just how much weight the UK does carry on an international level

Yup. Look at how all the other EU countries flocked to back Cameron's stance against Juncker....

ChelsyHandy · 15/08/2014 20:37

Corey What a vile thing to say. I am no Nationalist and reject the principles of nationalism but I happen to know a fair amount of committed SNP-ers. We differ politically but to compare such people to Nazis, murderers, genocidal maniacs...how dare you? How utterly disrespectful to those who suffered because of the Nazis"

Oh get over yourself. Both of my grandfathers fought in WW2 so that people like you and I could have free (within legal limits) speech. Not for someone like you to make a mockery of that by making up things people have not said and then attributing to them and calling them names for it. What a diva strop. You are losing an argument so you are resorting to insults rather than logic. In fact both my grandfathers would tell you to take a running jump. I really cannot be bothered with people like you who make histrionic statements rather than behaving decently, like the vast majority of people on this post. You want to be a bit careful with that approach - have you never heard the story about the little boy who cried wolf too often?

And I've asked if you're a name-changer before too. Your (offensive) statements about the KGB and the Stasi are awfully reminiscent of someone who had some pretty insensitive stuff to say after the Clutha

Funnily enough, I hear a lot of people making the Stasi and Soviet comments about the SNP of late. What on earth is offensive about pointing out that life wouldn't have been very pleasant under them, and that lessons can be learned from history? For goodness sake. If you've never heard it, then maybe you don't mix enough with people who challenge your own rather restricted views.

You sound a bit obsessed. What on earth did this poster say about the Clutha that has upset you so much and surely it was reported to mumsnet HQ and deleted if it was offensive?

Do you have anything interesting to contribute to the debate? I admit my posts aren't as full of content as some of the excellent debate on here, but they don't consist purely of personal attempts to denigrate other posts. We are all entitled to our views, but I have no idea what your views are.

StatisticallyChallenged · 15/08/2014 20:40

Gah I so want to reply to that nhs post -was out so couldn't look up figures but nonsense like that does nobody any favours. For all I'm a no, the thing I want most is proper information being circulated. The same person as posted that claimed that no voters hadn't done their research and he had. Argh. Just. Argh. And I'd say the same if roles were reversed and a no campaigner was being this daft.

ChelsyHandy · 15/08/2014 20:40

Actually Corey are you implying that in an independent Scotland, people will have their words policed in the way that you have done to mine above, so that things they didn't say will be attributed to them and judged to be offensive?

That sounds just wonderful.

CoreyTrevorLahey · 15/08/2014 20:55

Funnily enough, I hear a lot of people making the Stasi and Soviet comments about the SNP of late. What on earth is offensive about pointing out that life wouldn't have been very pleasant under them, and that lessons can be learned from history? For goodness sake. If you've never heard it, then maybe you don't mix enough with people who challenge your own rather restricted views

No, dear, I mix with a fair few people who LIVED under the Stasi and the KGB, who came to Scotland to be able to write, work and VOTE as they wished without threat and would find you and your pomposity pitiful. I think I see what's happening here. And I think we've had these conversations many, many times before.

ChelsyHandy · 15/08/2014 21:00

You do sound absolutely wonderful Corey. I find your last sentence a little bit...odd.

Anyway, I do believe there is a referendum to discover what people's thoughts on the matter are.

If you would like to comment on any matters relevant to the independence debate, then I would be delighted to respond. Until then, I'm not being drawn into this any further with you.

mumminio · 15/08/2014 23:05

Sorry haven't read the whole thread, but we (England & Wales) would probably have less socialist government...assuming that the Scottish seats would go.

Has anyone's opinion of Yes/No to Scottish independence changed as a result of this thread?

Sallyingforth · 16/08/2014 10:03

Has anyone's opinion of Yes/No to Scottish independence changed as a result of this thread?
Well the thread is about the effect on the rest of the UK, and my opinion hasn't changed. I'm sure we'll be better off from all the jobs moving south, particularly the financial industry and defence work like shipbuilding, and we can stop subsidising all those windmills through our electricity bills. So if the Scots really want to do it, bring it on!

suziepra · 16/08/2014 10:37

Either way Scotland is going to end up a divided country that has been pretty offensive to its biggest trading partner. Still hope they go due to all the idiots up there calling the English dictators and all that. Moaning teenager.

StatisticallyChallenged · 16/08/2014 10:45

I think comparing an entire country to a moaning teenager is pretty offensive, actually. Can't believe I am standing up for YES campaigners but it is a small portion of them who express anti English sentiments. There are plenty of people expressing anti-Scottish sentiments too.

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