to wonder how Scotland's decision will affect england?

[LEMmingaround]

Just that really? If they do go their ownway how will it affect england?

Also will it open a can of worms with wales and northern Ireland?

Numamoid what was the source of that badly out of context quote from Darling you posted.

Was it from official Yes propaganda?

I expect rUK to act in rUK's interests NOT iSctotland's (there would be an outcry if we asked iScotland to consider our interests above theirs FGS).

I see a CU as being of benefit to iScotland & risky for rUK. I'd be pretty livid if Scotland's interests were out above rUK. I'm sure most rUK voters feel the same - given the strength of argument against CU that is one u- turn I cannot see happening.

And thanks chunderella - I thought I'd gone mad! The nobility historically treated the poor badly enough without having to make things up!

Okay, I saw replies as I was in my account. Don't want to leave the Darling quote unexplained so I'll post this.

Phaedra No, I don't think so. I read information from the Yes Scotland campaign, however it is not the main campaign I support. There are many Yes campaigns, and although I try to read info from all of them, Yes Scotland is not my main source (and no, neither is the SNP). I actually read the main quote from Better Together propaganda. However lately all they can do is insult Salmond (but a lot of Yes supporters aren't fans either so if that's the best they can do, okay).

"Of course it would be desirable to have a currency union but you also have to understand there are consequences because a currency union means you’ve both got to agree your budgets, you’ve both got to agree how much you can tax, spend and borrow. And the point I’m making is that’s not freedom."

He still says it would be desirable. He may imply it is impractical, but he undeniably says desirable. My point being, why does he then imply it is not? Also if rUK Government would be doing the best for rUK (understandably) then perhaps they would consider that if Scotland is to take a share of UK debt, cooperating on the currency issue may be a benefit for them.

"Of course if you have independence or separation of course a currency union is logical, and do you know why? Because a currency union ultimately leads to an economic and then a political union which is what we have got now. I believe in the political union…."

He "believes" in a political union. However, does not say it is a necessity.

"...all this trauma as the nationalists are suggesting to end up at the very place you started out from..."

Misguided idea that Yes voters are all nationalists, but a minor point in itself.

The UK Government can veto a currency union, sorry if I said they couldn't. What they can't do is stop Scotland using the Pound. Again, I don't really care if we do or don't.

Okay, better go do things that need doing or I'll never get round to it. Natural-born procrastinator, I am.

A CU would function on different levels, but mostly an economic level (which would be beneficial for Scotland) and a political level (which would not, because it would involve ceding of national sovereignty to a degree which would compromise the idea of independence). Why are you so determined to paint Darling as a liar?

None of the currency options are gold-plated (pardon the pun ), they all have quite serious drawbacks.

Here's an interesting article from the New Statesman that addresses the some of the OP's original question - www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/02/flaw-osbornes-pre-emptive-strike-against-currency-union

Why are you so determined to paint Darling as a liar?

I'm not. Some posters asked to justify my previous post after the full quote was brought up. So I did.

I have never been a fan of Darling, neither have a lot of people. To be fair, if people are criticizing Salmond as head of the Yes campaign, to criticize Darling and his unexplained expenses is hardly unfair. Maybe people like him now since he is spearheading the BT campaign.

Why am I asked to justify what I write, then accused of painting a politician as a liar when I answer? He is one... most of them are. Yes, Salmond has told lies too, I don't think any politician can be completely trusted.

People are going to interpret things different ways depending on their beliefs, and we're never going to persuade each other to come around to the other side's way of thinking.

I really don't see how anyone can defend that level of out of context quoting. And the longer quote is just a quote -just because I lifted it from better together doesn't make it propaganda any more than everything the yes campaign publish is propaganda.

There's a difference between drawing meaning from something someone has said & selectively quoting to change the meaning though.

just because I lifted it from better together doesn't make it propaganda any more than everything the yes campaign publish is propaganda.

I don't deny that the Yes campaign also publish propaganda. I don't base my opinion purely on the campaigns either, a lot of Yes voters older and more experienced than myself, for example, base it on past experience living under the UK Government.

There's a difference between drawing meaning from something someone has said & selectively quoting to change the meaning though.

I didn't selectively quote to change the meaning, it's how I interpret it. I did read the whole quote, and that is how I took it. BT and Yes Scotland do the same thing, and it is done widely in academic journals - I remember having to be careful with that sort of thing at uni as quotes are taken differently depending on the reader.

Need to get going anyway or I'll never move (I know I keep saying it but I do!), hope everyone has a good start to the week. :)

Phaedra The relevance is simply because one poster commented on the fact that the Yes campaign is keen to peddle the idea that we're so much nicer and fairer in Scotland

That's not the only idea the Yes campaign are keen to peddle. Other favourites of theirs is that No voters are a bit dim or misguided, who simply need to read more Yes propaganda to help them "understand" or "research" better. And of course the BBC, and now ITV are biased (this is preparing the excuse for a No vote in advance, so they can agitate for yet another neverendum).

I agree there are institutionalised sex scandals in Westminster and its appalling. But if you think Scottish politics are free of that sort of thing, then it shows just how good the Scottish political elite is at at keeping other scandals, involving a different type of abuse at local government level out of the spotlight.

But the quote you gave earlier - was selectively quoted. Whoever published that changed the meaning.

Because you keep insisting that Darling has been changing his tune, Numanoid. He hasn't, he's been consistent throughout (as far as I am aware, anyway).

What kind of scandal/abuse has the scottish govt been involved in Chelsyhandy? Just genuinely interested.

The Darling quote in full on BT website so not accused of bias

bettertogether.net/blog/entry/doyou-think-alistair-darling-is-in-favour-of-a-eurozone-style-currency-unio

Basically he says that if course CU is desirable but if you are going to have CU you have to have a one sort of political union, so independence is pointless.

I disagree with the latter part, ceding some financial control and independence is way more control than we have now, no doubt others will agree.

I don't understand why people are saying no CU and scotland would not take thier share of the debt - the two issues are unrelated.

But the poster here was selectively cutting from his quote to put a different slant on what he said.

They're being related by salmond caroldecker.

Itsallgoing -the poster had clipped a tiny amount of what he said which fundamentally changed the meaning. That was the complaint. Not that he never uttered the phrases but that the context was being grossly misconstrued.

Numanoid given that the Scottish parliament post dates most of the current sex scandal -possibly all, I'm not totally up on the dates -then the Scottish parliament being involved would be somewhat difficult. But do you really believe that we will somehow have a better or different class of politician -just cos it's Scotland not the UK? Why?

Whoops said numanoid when I meant wanksock!

But he did say currency union was desirable, and now he is saying not?

Has he said that? Or just that it's not happening?

Well we have proof of pretty fucking horrible goings on in WM, I was interested to hear what scandalous behaviour had been going on in Scottish govt too as mentioned above. I understand that all politicians are probably wankers, the WM mob however are IMHO more toffy/out of touch career politicians than what we would have up here.

Alistair Darling, a former Labour finance minister who heads the Better Together campaign, again ruled out a formal union. "It's quite clear that there's not going to be a currency union. It's not in Scotland's interest, it's not in the interests of the rest of the UK, so with five weeks to go we need to know what plan B is," Darling said.

www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1570778/currency-union-not-scotlands-interests-says-alistair-darling