to wonder how Scotland's decision will affect england?

[LEMmingaround]

Just that really? If they do go their ownway how will it affect england?

Also will it open a can of worms with wales and northern Ireland?

If 100,000 English, Welsh and NI folk did turn up in Gretna on 17 Sep with an eleventh hour plea of loving Scotland and please stay in the UK, do you think it may sway the don't knows to no?

checks diary and marker pen draw

Toad I don't think losing Scotland would make the slightest difference to the UK's status and influence. Why on earth should it make the slightest difference at the UN or the EU?

The referendum is on my birthday. Might have to invent a drinking game of some kind.

I would be sad to see Scotland vote yes but understand why many want to.

I am hoping for a NO vote. I want Scotland to stay in the UK. I am English. I live in London but I work with a lot of non Brits and I am hugely proud of the whole of the UK. My DP is Scots and the DCs half Scots. We spend a lot of time visiting family there - it is like home.

There is so much that benefits us a a whole nation and I see it as a loss just as I would if I split my house in two.

Much of the anti-Scots stuff is in response to the whole "We'll be better off without you" stance of the Independence campaigners along with attacks on England and her greed/exploitation.

I want you to stay.

So, people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland - how much are you currently paying to use the NHS? If your child is, like mine, diagnosed with Asperger's, did it take a year for an Occupational Health referral? Did your parents have to pay for private physio because the NHS (Scotland) waiting list was too long

My severely autistic son couldn't access NHS SALT or OT.

He's 15 now and finally getting OT as part of a special project at school (not NHS funded). He occasionally gets NHS SALT but we have basically paid for anything useful he has had (England).

My second son was at high risk of communication disorder and showing signs of a problem and he had to wait a year for NHS assessment. In the meantime I called in ds1's private SALT and she sorted ds2 for me.

Aaaaarrrrggghhh just lost a massive post. Was going to say 2010 turnout recorded as 63.8%. 2011 Holyrood election was 50% turnout. SNP did much better there with 909,915, Tories 276,652. Those are constituency votes (list votes 876,421 SNP and 245,967 Tory). I'm guessing a lot of people vote differently in General and Holyrood elections, a strong element of protest voting one year into the coalition, and a lot of people not voting. I wonder how much of the results was genuine voter swing and which party's voters didn't turn up? But I am not a political analyst and it is nearly midnight so shall leave that one just now.

Anyway - quite a few people here vote Tory and I hadn't fully appreciated before how much they would benefit from proportional representation.

Thanks saintly hope I wasn't too aggressive. We aren't actually getting any OT or SALT we waited ages, had one meeting and were told they couldn't help us. Wondering about going private. We waited a year for NHS assessment of Asperger's then a year for the OT appointment.

Wonder if it is regional? I know a few people in various areas of England who get quite good support. But then I don't know all the details of diagnosis/needs so can't make full assessment.

Final votes one before I go to bed - Euro elections had SNP 389,503 (28.9%) and Tories 231,330 (17.2%). So undoubtedly there is no Tory majority in Scotland, but they're not lacking in support. Just realised I sound Tory obsessed - I've actually never voted Tory, I'm just fascinated by the assertion that hardly anyone in Scotland does.

I'm also disappointed with the turnouts. There has been a lot more interest in politics here, hopefully that will translate into sustained higher turnouts. And on a personal, selfish level if it is true that more people are registering, then there will be a bigger pool for jury service (have just had the letter AGAIN- am only just outside the time limit from last time)

Much of the anti-Scots stuff is in response to the whole "We'll be better off without you" stance of the Independence campaigners along with attacks on England and her greed/exploitation.

I was quite saddened to see posts on the first page of this thread, saying how if Scotland votes Yes, England can "get rid" of N. Ireland and Wales too. I've been a Yes voter from the start, and a campaigner, and nothing would ever persuade me to vote No. But I don't hate England, and I'm surprised that you've seen a lot of Yes campaigners targeting England.
I don't dislike England at all, rather Westminster. I don't see it as Scotland v. England thing, because a lot of English friends have recently been saying how they wish they could have independence from Westminster! It's dissatisfaction with the UK Government.

Westminster is just a proxy term for England.

Toad It is? How so? I refer to Westminster as the UK Government. I've already said I have nothing against England or the English. Some of my family are English, never felt the need to refer to them as "those English ones". People are people. :)

I don't see it exclusively as a Scottish/English thing but the rhetoric of the Yes campaign both official and unofficial has been far more aggressive than the No.

SNP politicians for example going on about No'ers not being proud of Scotland/doing Scotland down.

Salmond's idiotic spokesperson saying the debate would be as "bloody as a re-enactment of Bannockburn"

Salmond's even more idiotic comment that according to some poll he has Glasgow will vote yes and be "Freedom City".

The vitriol on pro-sites such as Wings over Scotland.

A member of my husband's family posting on her blog that "she's always surprised when people admit they are no voters" (this was in response to my mentioning I and indeed husband are nos)

Why should she think being on the same side as the other three mainstream, democratic Sottish political parties is something one "admits" to. It's not BNP.

Huh, I see it the other way. I found the HM Government leaflet to be threatening and insulting. The whole basis of Better Together is basically "here's things Westminster will take away from you if you vote Yes".

I'm not surprised when people say they are voting No. I don't know many No voters, but ones I have spoken to (not friends, but Better Together supporters, for example) have not hesitated in calling me "moronic", assuming I'm a nationalist and saying I'm stupid for supporting the SNP (I don't). I was shocked because all I did was ask for them to expand on some points in a Better Together leaflet I'd taken home to read.

I just hope one side has a clear majority come the referendum, polls are not to be trusted, I think both sides promote the ones favourable to their stances!

I don't think some people in Scotland are thinking hard enough about how their debate is being "heard" South of the border.

Try the following thought experiment.

England is holding a referendum on whether to leave the Union.

The English First Minister says "it's England's pound and we're keeping it".

He says he knows what is in the best interests of Scotland, Wales and NI - and it's to do what England wants.

He says that if Scotland et al doesn't do what England wants, England will walk away leaving Scotland etc. on the hook for 300 years of accumulated UK debt.

Lots of English people say they really like Scottish people but that "Edinburgh" is a Satan leeching the life-blood from the English economy.

Lots of people on the "Bella Anglia" website say that the newly independent England will be a "beacon of hope" to the benighted idiots north of the border.

How would that feel?

Fair

I thought about that earlier nep, and honestly, I can't speak for anyone else, but if that's how England felt then I'd say go for it!

The debacle surrounding the Scottish Pound is only because iScotland has been threatened with having the Pound taken us off us for leaving the UK. I don't see what's wrong with a currency union. I don't really care what we use, when Britain first joined the EU, for example, I really wanted the Euro. Would make travelling in Europe so much easier.

If Holyrood and Westminster had swapped places (e.g. the UK PM and government were based in Holyrood and vice versa), and what you describe was true, then yes! Independence would be the way to go!

The last part makes me think you've seen a Yes campaign calling those south of the Border "idiots". That's not cool, which campaign was it?

If Scotland remains part of the UK, and say Wales had a referendum citing similar reasons, I wouldn't bother. People have the right to choose how they're governed, and if enough people in one country feel the Union isn't working for them, then a fair vote will decide how best to proceed.

"here's things Westminster will take away from you if you vote Yes

Well you can't have it both ways. Why should the UK continue to have Scotland's interests at heart if Scotland goes.

Your other examples are from people you meet face to face. The examples I gave of "Freedom City" and "re-enactment of Bannockburn", both utterly crass, came from the very heart of the official Yes campaign. Imagine the howls of outrage if Darling's spokesperson had said it would be a re-enactment of Culloden.

Why should the UK continue to have Scotland's interests at heart if Scotland goes.

It shouldn't, and I don't think it (the UK government) does anyway, at the moment. But I don't appreciate receiving leaflets telling me how my pension will be taken off me, for example, if I vote yes.

I don't support statements like that. If you mean Yes Scotland, I don't agree with everything they say, as I'm sure you don't agree with everything the official No campaign says.

A definite good point of the referendum is that more people are a lot more interested in politics. I hope that continues afterwards too. :)

DH and I were just saying the same thing, Numan

I haven't seen anything I disagree with in the No campaign. I have not seen anything as crass as the comments I quoted.

I have not seen anything in the Yes campaign which has any credibility, especially not that wish-list/SNP manifesto written at public expense and masquerading as a white paper.

It's the one thing both sides can agree on, Fork! I hope that whichever way the vote goes, people in the whole of the UK still continue to challenge the way their country is run so that the Government really does work for the people.

I have not seen anything in the Yes campaign which has any credibility, especially not that wish-list/SNP manifesto written at public expense and masquerading as a white paper.

Nothing at all? I think the White Paper makes some very good points. Many of the Yes voters I know went from undecided > Yes after reading it. A lot were No voters put off by Better Together.

What about Darling previously saying a currency union would be favourable, then during the debate saying it wouldn't work?

If the Better Together page posted anything more than post-debate headlines, celebrities who support them and reasons why their supporters are voting No, I would read it more. I would never believe it, but I might see it as more credible.

Is it just me who hates how this feels like an argument? The referendum is like one big, real-life AIBU.

I sometimes wonder if those of us who have firmly decided which way we're voting should just agree to disagree since we're not going to convince each other.

As much as I'm posting in AIBU, I don't like conflict. Whatever your nationality, voting habits, whatever... if you're a nice person then I don't dislike you.

I'm imagining it now, Scotland posting in AIBU... "AIBU For wanting to be independent?" I think my brain is telling me it's time to go to bed!