I am not sure older women can do 'artfully dishevelled'

[PittTheYounger]

without just looking knackered.

That woman's view of old age sounds awful!

So basically. Young women can do whatever they want. Older women have three choices. Bland (not scaring the horses), Joan Collins ("ooh, I hope I look as good when I'm her age!") or wearing purple and a red hat and behaving in a juvenile and wildly eccentric manner, (she's wonderful- such a character!)

Just listen to yourselves!

I think it depends totally on the person as it does when you're younger - their shape, personality and natural style. Jane Birkin is a great example of someone who always wears really casual things and always looks amazing and she has always inspired me - e.g. the way she does wideleg jeans with plain v-neck jumper. OTOH if I'm thinking dressy, my style icon for when I'm older will be Helen Mirren who always looks amazing dressed up (and always has cool non-dated-looking hair).

At 44 I wear all kinds of things, I'm more experimental and colourful now than when I was younger. I try to dress to suit my (pear) shape but I don't stick to a classic or "grown-up" look. I don't really do artfully dishevelled (though sometimes plain old dishevelled) - but that's because I think that look really suits slim, wispy, very good-looking people best, male and female (think Johnny Depp) and I was never that!

I think weight is a different issue.

I think I am naturally at the scruffy end of the spectrum and I would say that good health and a smile is more attractive than layers of make up. Icons for me are those women in their 80's ploughing up and down the slow lane with flowery swim caps. Be wrinkled and proud I say!

However, there is a level of scruffiness that looks interesting on a young person and ragged on an older person.

(By the way, I think you can get away with food stains if you are accompanied by a very young child - it's not a fashion look but you do have a reasonable excuse.)

I am sure there is no limit to what I can wear or how I "should" look as I get older. I find I care less and less - not about how I look, I really love clothes and colour and experimenting with looks - but about how I should look or what people think.

Kirsty Wark looked brilliant on newsnight last night, she's another older style hero of mine. Bright green top with black lace banding on it, a totally statement top. I'm not sure if it would suit me but the point is you could see she thought "I LOVE that and bugger looking restrained".

'By the way, I think you can get away with food stains if you are accompanied by a very young child - it's not a fashion look but you do have a reasonable excuse.'

No, that's what wet wipes are for. Goodness, young mothers today have no sense of shame.

I'd love to have legs like Joanna Lumley...

Nope, I honestly think that back in the day Matt Dillon could have got away with stains of dubious origin.

It must depend on the person surely,not just they're age.

I'm 39 now(and that is not old!)and I can still get away with it.

To be honest I didn't start with the artfully dishevelled look until I was in my 30's.Before that I used to spend ages straightening my wavy hair and applying my make up.

After years of hating my hair I've mastered the sexy bed hair look and pretty much just run my fingers through my hair before I go out. I've realized with age that my hair is supposed to be wavy and looks a lot better the way nature intended it than it ever did when it was straightened.

I feel so much more comfortable in my own skin now than when I was in my 20's.

I could not give a rats arse about 'should / shouldn't' when it comes to age and clothes.

I'm 43 and have more style, money, time and - thanks to the preceding concepts - a way better body than I did when I was 23. I have time to spend in the gym and damn right I'm going to show off the results.

I shall continue to wear what the Jeff I like & I've everything from leopard print jumpsuits, to shorts for winter and summer (always worn with heels), to skinny jeans and Converse to Jaeger dresses with blazers. With a healthy dose of Westwood thrown in for good measure.

I am often complimented on my style and you know what? I love it!

Fashion / clothing is fun & expressive and balls to dressing how anyone 'expects' me to dress.

I'm 43.

I just get in the morning, put on some clothes and get on with my day.

I put on make up when I go to work or for a night out.

I would love to have a 'look' or a particular 'style'

But sadly, I don't think it will happen.

Hey ho.

That's because Matt Dillon is a man.

No, I don't think he could get away with them now. He would just look as though he wasn't quite all there.

I fear I am starting to dress like a toddler. I wonder if I look like this and need to Sort It Out.

I think the idea of what is meant by 'older woman' is always changing. I'm in my forties and I wear edgy, branded stuff and look cool as fuck.

Whereas I have photos of my gran when she was my age, wearing a pinny and a hair net and looking like 'a granny'.

I think inevitably this debate falls into two camps. The people who say don't be so sexist and ageist, anybody can wear whatever they like.

And the people who say absolutely they can, but it doesn't look nearly as cool as it did when they were young. If they don't care how they look, then great. But most women I know do care how they look.

My mum is still pushing the rock chick look in her sixties and it looks pretty rough I must confess. It's not a gender thing either, rock chic looks seedy on almost anybody of a certain age, unless they actually are a rock star.

So ageism is OK, but saying 'You are too fat to wear that, FFS go and buy clothing that fits you' is not?
On the other hand, the OP is probably as judgy about flab, muffin tops and under 30s that wibble as they wobble.

Some of us suit a groomed look.
Some of suit more boho.
Some of us suit white shirts. And even a trenchcoat.
Some of us have good legs.
Some of us look sexy ('Ewww' did I hear you say?)

Thought that was worth repeating. Thank you Floisme

I'd also add some of us have better things to do than bitch about other women and their hair/skin/clothes.

Try not to be so judgemental, it's quite liberating

"So ageism is OK, but saying 'You are too fat to wear that, FFS go and buy clothing that fits you' is not?
On the other hand, the OP is probably as judgy about flab, muffin tops and under 30s that wibble as they wobble."

No it isn't- I have made that point to illustrate the unfairness of being ageist.

ExcuseTypos, that brings me to another grump of mine.
This sort of post belongs in the 'Style and Beauty' section IMO.
Unless the OP is bringing her message to the huddled masses. Rather like one of the shinier shopping channels.

More applause for pringle I look better now in my 40s than I did in my teens and twenties - I'm fit, a size 8-10, my skin looks clear too because I eat properly and I no longer have the big bags under my eyes from partying all night. And I no longer buy into miracle wrinkle free cosmetics that promise the world and deliver nothing but fancy packaging. Growing older is very liberating!

No it's not ageism at all.

When I was a student I wouldn't have really worried about a whether a potential partner could use a washing machine. 20 years later, I would be more concerned and would be more suspicious that lack of good grooming was a symptom of lack of maturity and aversion to responsibility.

Floisme I agree that older women suit different looks.

Girls, teenagers, younger women are the same. Some seem to pull off a certain look but don't look great in another. I have worked with people who look great uber groomed, sporty, arty and others who miss.

I've never managed to look groomed and shiny, I can only do natural. I used to put loads of effort into clothes when I was younger, slightly goth, arty, surfer I don't think I've completely given it up, except the goth. Mainly I'm just grab whatever suits me, from high street store. My criteria is does the colour suit me, does it hang off my body nicely, it doesn't show off lumps and bumps.

I'm 43 and got asked for my ID last week!!! A couple of weeks into my last contract it turned out that a few in the office thought that I was in my 20's. They must see a different face that the one I see in the mirror.

And I do think you can look attractively arty and bohemian style dishevelled until you are 100. However there is a tipping point into looking plain old ragged and scruffy style dishevelled that just isn't there when you are 22.

Is there anything really wrong with looking scruffy style dishevelled? no - unless what you are going for is arty and bohemian style dishevelled and missing your target.