To wonder why some dads are so utterly rubbish and disinterested in their children?

[FET14]

To be clear, I'm not talking about complete and utter disinterest / abandonment, but more 'low level' disinterest and an expectation that minimal involvement in their children's lives suffices. This is where couples are (living) together too, not separated.

Examples:

• A mum who told me her husband would rather poke his eyes out than attend the birthday party of any toddler who's a 'friend' of our toddlers. Apparently he doesn't like babies and children, apart from his own. Mum and toddler attend any such parties without him. (Both parents and any siblings are invited along with the kids. Me and DH plan to go with our toddler. We don't know the other parents too well but like seeing our son interact with other kids.)

• A dad who is a season ticket holder at the local premier league football club and attends every home game plus after-game drinks and a fair amount of away games. He and his wife both work full-time so only have weekends as family time.

• A dad who won't allow his wife to organise a birthday party for his toddler that other little friends and parents are invited to because he doesn't want a fuss. His wife is very sociable with other mums, wants a party and is v disappointed.

• A dad who won't take his toddler to any baby activities by himself.

• A dad who has been on his own 4 day stag do abroad this year and will be going on another similar stag do of a friend later this year, leaving his wife and toddler home alone.

The disinterest seems surprisingly common and cuts across age, social class etc.

AIBU to think this attitude from dads is unreasonable? Either way, is it 'the norm'? Why do the women put up with it? Don't the dads care that they're missing out? Why are perfectly nice and normal women with such idiots?

heaven - calm down dear! Pre-kids, DH represented GB at triathlon, so I do know what a good standard of triathlon is and I also know how much time triathlon training takes. Perfect if you want to abdicate any major responsibility for childcare. Understandable if you're a Brownlee brother or similar standard but pretty selfish once you have young children and a partner who could use your help in the evenings or at weekends. Good for you with changing your lifestyle for the better though!

Goodness me you're patronising.

You sound a bit jealous, actually. Do you have to keep your DH on a tight leash or something?

OP
rest assured that families do their own deals

there is no one size fits all

I sympathise Op. My dh is currently obsessed with a computer game and spends far more time playing that than interacting with the dc's. I have to tell him to go up and read their bedtime story when it's his turn. I always have to remind him about kids stuff. It's like it's just not a priority.

heaven - Jealous? Of what? (Uninvolved fathers? Women with partners who still have to parent for two?)

What ReigningQueen said.

I wouldn't want to leave my child to spend a hen weekend at the other end of the country getting a hangover and extra sleep deprived. Weekends are family time now

Well good for you.

That's your choice. Having a weekend away occasionally doesn't mean you're an uninterested parent. Some of us appreciate occasionally doing something without the kids in tow.

heaven - calm down dear!

Very naff and PA response.

I've never been on a hen weekend since having children either, mainly because I hate them and kids are a great excuse not to go. DH has similar opinions of stag weekends. Does that makes us in any way better parents than people who do enjoy them and continue to go? I don't think it really does.

Why do you find it so hard to understand that people do things differently? Is this for an article on "good dads" or something?

Blimey. Who can blame the dads for not wanting to be covered in vomit and made deaf by thirty rambunctious tots at a party? And why should a dad (or mum) not have a sporting hobby?

Shall I tell you what the worst kinds of parents are? Those who spend hours and hours on their iphones, ipads or mumsnet

some of the things on this list alone do not make a bad father. Think you should examine what motivates you to judge people.

Ilovemydog, your OH sounds like a dream

No, I'm not a journo in disguise piddle. I've never liked hen weekends either so like you, kids are a perfect excuse not to go now.

I do understand that people do things differently. Maybe just bemused by why some dads apparently only want to do the crap bits - night feeds, nappy changes etc - and not the fun, spending free time with the kids bit. And there's not much of that if, like many parents, you work full time, commute, don't have domestic staff etc. Young kids go to bed early too. Maybe others are just super efficient with what they fit into their time or prefer time away from their kids to time with them.

I definitely like time without my little one, who doesn't? (Hold on, that's another post for another day.. Velcro baby, or velcro mother?!) I just don't need a whole weekend of time without my child straight.

Wow OP, your DH sounds AMAZING! You guys must have such a fabulous life together.........

.........so why is it you seem so interested in everyone else's life

Goodness me you're patronising.

OP none if what you have listed IMO shouts inintetest to me.

Family's are all different and do things the way that is best for them.

You seem a little over interested in other peoples choices.

And I go to most kids parties cos I have lots of mum friends who I enjoy socialising/gossiping with. DH could go instead, and do the dad-at-a-kids-party pose (ie line up against a wall, faffing with phone!).

And as a pp said, it is wanky both going to a toddlers party!

Who likes birthday parties? Especially once they get past the cute toddling stage. Twenty 4-8 year olds hyped up on sugar, screeching and farting. Hell on earth. We flip a coin. I'm hoping DS will be happy to be left at parties soon.

Ahem.

There's two (or three) issues in your post really.

Is it okay for dads (or mums) to dislike certain parts of parenthood? Are we supposed to love every minute? Are we bad parents if we don't? I don't think it's the case. Of course you're not going to love every part.

Secondly is it okay for dads (or mums) to have time off away from the family? Sure, I think so, but of course it has to be equal and balanced. And you can't both have so much time off that the children don't get any time with both of you, unless you're divorced. (I think it was Arial Gore who said "Bring me shared custody, hang the divorce!")

So really you're asking the third question (I think.) Is it okay for dads to partake in less or none of the stuff they don't like while the children's mother has to do more or all of the parts she doesn't like? No it's not, but it is definitely a sort of cultural norm. It shouldn't be, and I think mumsnet is brilliant for pointing out that this doesn't need to be the case and that a lot of men would be horrified at the thought of their wife drudging through loads of stuff she struggles with or doesn't enjoy just so he doesn't have to, but you can't ignore the social and cultural norm, that mums just have to suck up all parts of childcare (and are supposed to enjoy it all to boot, and are judged lacking if they don't), whereas men effectively get a free pass for not enjoying some parts of childcare, and a free pass from doing any part of childcare that they don't enjoy, on the grounds that women love every part, and men "aren't wired for it". So, similarly, socially it's acceptable for men to have more "time off" because they "need it" whereas women love children so much that being around the children IS relaxing to them - and also, being a SAHM isn't really a job or hard work, so what does she have to relax from anyway.

Cultural norm = reality for a lot of women, acceptable for a lot of men. It's not acceptable, in any way, but our culture says that it is, so a lot of people will assume that it's normal.

pretty selfish once you have young children and a partner who could use your help in the evenings or at weekends

If she needs help with children, perhaps it was selfish of her to have them given that him helping would interfere with his hobby. Do we actually know that that he claimed to be equally interested in having them and/or that he promised to share the workload equally?

There are lots of women for whom their children are their primary focus in life. There are lots of men for whom it's something else their life revolves around. If a woman like that chooses to have children with a man like that, maybe she shouldn't expect him to give up his primary interest to facilitate hers?

Both partners going to a toddlers birthday party to watch their child interact sounds insufferably twee.

One parent at least could/should be at home reading the papers and drinking coffee. That's also what weekends are for here on Planet Ordinary.

My DH is the worlds number one father and I cannot remember a single instance of him coming along to a toddler party with me.

Things have gone badly wrong in the last decade, haven't they?

I don't think the examples you give show a lack of interest on the part of the dad. Except the football one perhaps. My DH hates kids birthday parties and I am happier going on my own and there are not many dads there I find. Also DH would not go to a toddler group as he would feel surrounded by women he says (and he would probably be scared ha ha...!!).

Nothing wrong with going to a stag do - DH has been away before and I have been quite happy for a few days alone with children. He would do the same for me if I wanted to go away.

DH is not interested in football but spends time on another hobby (music) which i am happy with.

However DH looks after our two DD (both aged under 4) on his own many times, gets up at night when needed and is generally wonderful with the girls, spending lots of time with them. I think he is a great Dad!! So no, the things you describe do not in my opinion show a father is 'disinterested' and an 'idiot'!!

Partner is into triathlon, but now so is my daughter and oldest son is long distance swimming, they are fit and healthy. I would not want my DCs to be with anyone who limited their passion but someone who has their own passions in life who can work together to ensure all family members get quality time, that does not always equate to quantity of time or being joined at the hip. I secretly judge parents who attend paties toghether. Just why?

The only way to change the pattern would be to point it out to men and make them think objectively, not based on "this is how it should be because it is" or pseudo brain science which has been proven to be complete bollocks anyway, but actually "does this make sense when I look at us as two equal human beings in a partnership who are trying to help each other out". If he's got a shred of decency he'll get it, and want to make things more equal.

Although, I suppose, if that were the case he would already be pulling his weight in the first place, things would be equal, and you wouldn't need to point it out to him. So you want to hope that he is either decent but oblivious, or half decent and observant but a bit workshy although willing to change that when given a kick up the bum and a reminder that he could lose you. If neither of these things, then he was just a misogynistic unsupportive arse in the first place (a lot of blokes get away with it because women are perfectly capable of holding the entire fort and don't like to say "Hey, you're supposed to be making my life easier" because it makes us feel less independent, which is bollocks and annoying, and it all falls down if - god forbid - you end up in a situation where you are less able to be independent) and will continue to be arses, and may as well make himself useful by taking sole charge of them every other weekend and one evening in the week.

Simplified, obviously. And puts the work of explaining and awareness making onto women which is a whole other topic, but it's about time, isn't it? That we let go of the cultural norm of "Dads are a bit useless and shouldn't be made to do things they don't like".

Oh I've xposted loads now. Would like to point out there is nothing wrong (IMO) with one person going to all birthday parties or whatever because they quite like/don't really mind birthday parties and the other parent finds them a living hell, but quite a lot wrong with one parent attending all birthday parties and the other none when they both hate birthday parties equally. Unless there is some other equally hated activity which is also divided up. "You do parties, I'll do bedtime. Deal." etc.

Dunno. Sort of all comes under the category of "Don't be a dick" doesn't it?

Is it okay for dads to partake in less or none of the stuff they don't like while the children's mother has to do more or all of the parts she doesn't like? No it's not

Why not? There is an implicit assumption here that everyone's contribution to a relationship must be equal in every respect. And not just their contribution, but what they get out: that they place exactly the same value on everything.

"Sort of comes under the catagory of "Don't be a dick" doesn't it?"
Bertie you've just solved 99% of AIBU queries