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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to feel awkward about raising this with DS and spouse?

91 replies

evilartsgraduate · 24/07/2014 00:26

Short version: DS has civil partner who was AMAB but is genderfluid and presents as m or f variously (pronoun "they"). DS presents as very within the norm. They have both been invited (after I asked, and was given the go ahead, to include spouse on the invite as they originally weren't, not I think necessarily on purpose) to my aunt's 70th. Then she calls asking if spouse is very "out there" (her words) - to which I answered honestly - and then asking me to make sure that they dress male at the party so as not to make other guests feel uncomfortable.
Aside from the fact I don't want DS and spouse to feel we are trying to tell two fully grown adults what to do, AIBU to feel that maybe my aunt should have asked them about this herself?
In the end it is entirely possible they may not be able to come as it's BH weekend and they may already have plans, however... I don't want to have to have this conversation, if I am perfectly honest, as I'm sure DS and spouse get enough of this kind of thing as it is. OTOH I do kind of see her point, as it will be a party full of oaps and religious people due to their church connections and would hope that DS and spouse would want to be tactful. On the third hand DS does often get on his high horse about similar issues - indeed a lot of issues, lol, takes after his father. And there is no way that, if it came up (and it would) he would be anything other than "this is my spouse, deal with it" (slightly more politely but not much).

OP posts:
FidelineAndBombazine · 24/07/2014 01:59

It literally makes no impact on her whatsoever yet she is willing to tell others what to do over it. I don't think just because it's your party you get to be intolerant and controlling. Why would you want to be?

Discomfiture? consideration for the embarassment of religious or old fashioned guests? several decades of living in a different world?

I don't think it is necessarily bigoted. Old fashioned maybe. She probably thinks she is being pragmatic.

Maryz · 24/07/2014 02:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FidelineAndBombazine · 24/07/2014 02:02

There are septegenarians who happily wear clothes of the opposite gender.

The age is relevant insofar as the likelihood that they grew up comfortable/familiar with such issues as fluid gender is slight.

I just think it is most easily dealt with if everyone tries to compromise (and deals directly and leaves the poor OP out of it Smile)

FidelineAndBombazine · 24/07/2014 02:04

Grin @ gimp mask

Exactly Maryz

DiaDuit · 24/07/2014 02:07

I'm not sure about any other families but once i'd hit about 17/18 i'd proven myself reliable on the 'picking the right tone of outfit' front. Maybe i am odd.

I would definitely think it odd saying it to an adult child who didnt even live with you anymore. They're fully cooked at that point. Unless they just are really crap at dressing for te occasion, which i know some fully cooked adults are and always will be.

I do agree OP shouldnt have been asked to get involved. Aunty should call DS herself.

Millytint · 24/07/2014 12:42

Totally agree with fideline re:septuagenarians/ irrelevance of age. Our generation did not invent diversity, their views are relevant, their age is not.

Millytint · 24/07/2014 12:46

Argh sorry skim read, now I realise have added precisely nothing to the discussion Blush

IceBeing · 24/07/2014 12:52

The Aunt should defo do the talking here so OP YANBU.

If the Aunt herself has a problem with the spouse then she needs to uninvite both son and spouse.

If she doesn't then she shouldn't do anything at all.

AMumInScotland · 24/07/2014 13:05

I think it's quite a lot to ask a group of 70-somethings to get their heads around the concept of a gender-fluid person while celebrating a birthday, without the whole occasion becoming about 'spouse' rather than aunty.

Assuming that aunty has referred to spouse as a civil partner, and presumably used the pronoun 'He' when talking about them, I think it would not be rude to say to DS "You know aunty's friends are assuming spouse to be male? Obviously up to them how they dress for the occasion, but maybe it would be simpler to present as male for the party."

I still remind my adult son of what I think might be appropriate for certain occasions, it doesn't have to be taken as an insult.

ObfusKate · 24/07/2014 13:07

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AMumInScotland · 24/07/2014 13:10

My mum is 75, she was married in 1963 and had three children by 1970. The sixties happened to other people to a fair extent...

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance · 24/07/2014 13:10

The aunt should be dealing with this and not the OP. It's quite naughty of her to make a potentially difficult situation between OP, her son and spouse. If she has an issue, she should deal directly with the adult she's got an issue with.

titchy · 24/07/2014 13:16

Looking at the positive - isn't it great that Aunty is quite happy to have a gay couple at her party with lots of other oldies and churchie folks (whether they present as one or not)!

Adikia · 24/07/2014 13:17

Difficult, I have a friend who is AMAB and if you were to tell them not to wear a dress they would purposely change their outfit to a dress because of the principle Hmm

Do you get on well enough with the spouse to just say, there will be lots of old people and churchy people there, its a shirt and tie type occasion?

ObfusKate · 24/07/2014 13:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FidelineAndBombazine · 24/07/2014 13:26

Kate I have an 81 year old female relative, who herself has a 60 year daughter who is gay. Said 81 year old does not accept the existence of lesbianism. 60 year old doesn't want the issue pushed, so we don't. Bizarre but probably not as unusual as one might imagine.

Gender fluidity would be several steps further Grin

AMumInScotland · 24/07/2014 13:28

My mum is certainly fine with people being gay, and (though a bit bemused) with them being transgender. But I think she'd find it really quite difficult to get her head around someone who did not identify clearly as either male or female but could present as either from one day to the next. Being either gender would be fine, being attracted to either gender would be fine. It's a bigger leap to say the whole idea of gender just isn't a label you accept at all.

OfaFrenchMind · 24/07/2014 13:42

AMumInScotland Agreed.
I don't mind it at all, would not even dream of making a mention of it to anybody because I don't want to hurt of offend them. People's happiness and self-acceptance is paramount as it does not cause damage to anybody. But I still cannot wrap my mind around gender-fluidity. So it would be unfair to ask a 70yo lady and her friends, at her party, to "get" it.

Viviennemary · 24/07/2014 18:11

I'm quite convenional. But if people are invited to a party they should be accepted as they are. And not laid down stipulations. It is a difficult situation to be in and there isn't a lot you can do about it except hope it will all go smoothly.

Viviennemary · 24/07/2014 18:11

Um that should have been conventional.

lougle · 24/07/2014 18:30

" But if people are invited to a party they should be accepted as they are."

Sensitivity should be shown by both parties, surely?

I wouldn't go to a vegetarian's house and declare that as I'm an omnivore could they please slap a steak under the grill.

I wouldn't go to a Muslim's house and say that I'd like to pray before dinner, then proceed to thank Jesus for the meal they prepared.

Surely if you're gender fluid (when did that even become a gender status? I've never heard of it) you can choose to be conservative in your expression of that for one day for the sake of someone else's enjoyment of their event.

DiaDuit · 24/07/2014 18:34

I wouldn't go to a vegetarian's house and declare that as I'm an omnivore could they please slap a steak under the grill.

This would be comparable if the spouse was intending to ask aunty to put on a pinstripe suit and tie.

Taking your analogy what they would be doing is bringing their own meat to eat themselves. No involvement from anyone else required.

What would be the issue with someone thanking their own god in the presence of those who worship another?

maddy68 · 24/07/2014 18:39

Just say 'dress conservatively. You know what she's like ..... ' and then leave it up to them

PurplePidjin · 24/07/2014 18:41

Are you overthinking it a bit?

If I'm going to a family party, I have a conversation with my parents about what would be a suitable thing to wear. Especially when I was a rebellious teenager - to me it's totally within the bounds of reasonable behaviour for a parent to ensure that their child is appropriately dressed

Add in to this that there may well be some people at the party who are homophobic. They will take against your ds and his dp purely for being in a same sex relationship.

I don't think you would be unreasonable at all to suggest to your ds and d/sil that they should wear clothing appropriate to the occasion - whether that's a jacket, tie and smart trousers or a smart dress with cardigan.

Mylovelylovelyhorse · 24/07/2014 18:46

Wouldn't the 70 year olds roll their eyes and reminisce about the 'crazyzee' things they did when they were young?