...to not want my child baptised?

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OH and I don't have any religious affiliations. I was raised in non-religious, liberal household and left to make my own choices. I chose athiesm, although not in an outspoken, "everyone else is wrong and religion is evil" way - I just don't have any belief in a deity of any kind.

OH was raised in a very Christian household - church every Sunday, choirboy. His mum still goes to church every morning before work, his dad is a preacher.

Despite my upbringing, I was still baptised at 9 weeks old - according to my mum, "It's just what you did back then". Which I do question quite often.

OH has a daughter from his first marriage - they baptised her when she was nearly 2 years old, and her godmother is Jewish!!!

We now have one on the way, and we were talking last night and have found this appears to be the only parenting point we don't agree on - and we need to decide what to do. His parents WILL pester us until there is a baptism. They've never asked about or questioned my faith or lack of, and they accept that OH doesn't go to church or practice a faith.

I feel that if a child is to be "welcomed" into a place of worship at an age when they aren't aware what's going on, they should be welcomed into them all, allowing them to make a decision when they are older. Failing that, to not do anything, and when they are old enough to actively choose a religion, or not as the case may be, I would support them in whatever they wish to do. And that's any faith - I really don't care. What I do care about is pressuring them from Day One into a faith that they may not want to be a part of.

I will have no issue with OH's parents taking my child to church - I feel it very important that religion is taught and experienced so that they have all the information to decide for themselves. I also have friends of other faiths and I would be happy for them to take my child to their place of worship should they be caring for them at the time.

What I'm really asking is if I should stick to my guns, and make it clear how I feel, or for an easy life just give in and allow a Christening to take place? If that were to happen, I do seriously feel I couldn't take part, and stand at a font and say words that I don't believe in, and make promises I won't keep - I won't be a hypocrite on this as I feel it will give the wrong impression to my child as they grow older, like I feel towards my mum about my Christening.

Sorry, this ended up being longer than I thought it'd be. Let the flaming commence! (Sorry, no pun intended)

Absolutely stick to your guns. I do not understand why people who do not go to church or have any religious convictions still do things like christenings. Aside from it being rather hypocritical and fake, I think it is for individuals to decide their own religious views. Admittedly, a child doesn't decide whether to go to church or not and is often dragged along by its parents until it is of an age to make its own decision. That, I think, is how it should be. Give a child a grounding in religion if that is YOUR immediate family's desire. But it should be totally up to the individual if they wish to be baptised.

If you are brought up as a Baptist, you don't get baptised as a child for this precise reason. They have adult baptism, because they believe it should be the person's choice that that is the path they wish to take, not their parents.

This is my exact reasoning too. One of my closest friends was baptised at 22, and we all found it a bit of a shock at the time, but it was her choice and she felt she was a better person for it, and I can totally respect that. I happily attend the in-laws church fundraisers etc, as it's a social and family thing, and they aren't all preachy, so it's a nice evening or weekend spent, but I wouldn't attend a Sunday service. I only go to churches for weddings, funerals and family Christenings, and mostly I stand in the back and observe. I don't sing hymns or bow my heads for prayers, because it's not what I believe.

I went to a C of E school, but had quite liberal teachers, as well as a few Muslim classmates (no non-religious schools in our catchment back then!), so our religious education was actually always tactfully done which I appreciate now very much looking back, and probably had a lot to do with why I feel the way I do...

I'm just expecting this to cause some issues, and up until now everyone gets on brilliantly, his parents love me, my parents love them and everyone is happy. I'm expecting my mother to tell me to cave and just let it happen, but I want to raise my child to be a strong individual, to make decisions for themselves and not be swayed or pressured by others to feel a certain way.

We deliberately didn't baptise our DC because although I'm religious (will be leaving for church with younger DC in an hour, as it happens) I don't believe infant baptism is necessary or appropriate.

But oh the hand-wringing from family who don't step into a church from one wedding/funeral to the next

If you felt you could compromise, you could agree to a blessing/dedication service in which no promises are made on the baby's behalf, but just by the congregation. In your position I wouldn't be sure FIL wouldn't quietly baptise the baby at the first opportunity - it doesn't have to be a big ceremony, nor a priest.

I don't understand why people often cave in to what grandparents want in these sorts of matters. Or "if we don't do it, my mother will be upset". It's absolutely nothing to do with them! It's for you and your husband alone to determine.

Now, it may be your husband wants it to happen and you don't. How do you resolve the stalemate? I don't think you do. I think that in some areas there are compromises. I think this is very much like the question "do we have another child?" The party that says no, basically gets their way.

I think the reasons you don't want your child to be baptised/christened are perfectly reasonable and valid.

I think you should firmly explain that it would be completely disingenuous for you to make the required promises and that they would effectively be asking you to lie to the God they believe in but you don't.

If they want to have a service celebrating your little one a thanksgiving would be much more appropriate.

I (as a Christian) find it very hard to understand why some Christians want Atheists to have to lie about their children and how they'll bring them up!

You don't want it, your husband does?

surely it makes no difference to you but is important to your husband then why not just do it? doesn't make a difference in yours or the child's life but makes your husband/in laws happier?

When we had to make this decision I said that I wouldn't have them baptised in a C of E church because I knew I had no intention of taking them to church on a regular basis.

DH is Catholic, and I said it was his call - but unless he intended to actually take them to church on a regular basis, I'd prefer they weren't christened. We did have them christened, and DH has taken them to church regularly - though once they hit secondary school, we let them choose whether they go to church strangely, they choose not too. As a side effect of this, we have a wider choice of schools.

I like the thanksgiving services you can have, though. They don't involve promising things you know you have no intention of doing. Gives a nice welcome to a new baby, without hypocrisy.

jeee - but similarly if you want to welcome a new baby, you can have friends and family round to the family home and have a glass and some nibbles and have a nice welcome that way? There's no necessity to do it in a church if a parent has no conviction.

I was raised in a Christian household, and am a regular churchgoer myself. (I like to think I'm a Christian but being from NI there is always one denomination or another shouting in my ear 'well, no actually, you're not .) Anyway, I'm not baptised, only one of my siblings is baptised, my dc are not baptised and none of my nieces or nephews are baptised, despite my entire extended family being churchgoers. In fact, I have no idea if my parents were ever baptised. What I'm saying is that she that lack of baptism does not prevent someone having personal faith, so if you don't want it, it's not like you're preventing your child from attending church or anything.

I grew up in a very religious household yet have chosen not to christen my children as it is not something I believe in. I have taken the morals and values I have grown up with and hope to instill them in mu children bit felt christening them would hypocritical as you say.

I think that in your position, standing firm may cause tension within your family so I would go along the lines of saying something like.

"We have chosen not to baptise our child into a particular church but feel lucky that we have uou to teach our child about your religion. It is important to methat my child learns about all religion. For ththat reason we have decided to having a naming day and as FIL is a preacher, would be happy for you to give a blessing at the ceremony if you'd like."

Would that be something you would consider.

I'm not sure of how your family would take it. You shoild obviously only do what you feel comfortable. YOU are the parent.

My parents are Scottish. My Mums family, practising Catholics. My Dads family non practising Protestant. My father changed religion to marry my Mum. It was unheard of for men to change religion for the woman on Glasgow at this time. And despite the fact that there was no practising members of my father's family. Some of them stopped speaking to my father because of it.

My father said to my Mother that she could raise the kids Catholic but as soon as we came to an age to question it, that we were not to be pressured in anyway.

Your reasons are completely vaild and you don't need to explain further than that. Asking you to would be unreasonable. It's just a matter of phrasing it in suxh a way that won't cause a fall out. However if a fallout occurs, then you are not at fault. This is your child and you have thought hard about what to do I with your childs best interests at heart, therefore you cannot be wrong.

Thing is, NotNew, over the years my family has had a lot of support from their church (C of E). And so it means something to me. I like the ritual of a service.... but I knew that I didn't want to make promises in church that I had no intention of even trying to keep.

So for me, a thanksgiving service would have been a really nice thing. I certainly don't think it's a good idea for people who never go to church. But then I get all judgy about people who have their children christened while loudly sneering about god-botherers and the like.

Territt - OK, in your scenario, the wife should capitulate to make her husband happy. Why is that more valid than, say, the husband agreeing not to have the child baptised so that is wife is happy that the child isn't?

I was baptised as a baby and throughout my formative years was pestered about being confirmed. I refused.
In later years I got involved with a bunch of pushy born-again christians who wanted me to be re-baptised. I refused.

I'm now a parent (and no longer involved in organised religion). My DD hasn't been christened/baptised. Like you, spence, I think it should be her choice, when she's good and ready.

I don't think that just because one set of parents (the child's gp's) expect you to do something you should. Your house, your rules. However, you and your husband need to resolve the how/why/when.

I get that your atheist beliefs are as strong as your partners religious beliefs.

What I am going to say next will possibly have you froth! But in my opinion, the lack of belief in a deity is as much a faith as belief in a God. You may not call it faith, but it is something that you believe in so strongly that it permeates your being and your thoughts, in the same way as religion. Being an atheist is not lack of faith, it is faith in something else. Be it science or logic, the natural order of things, the non-existence of deities, etc.

It is a shame that you did not discuss, or take into consideration how different your viewpoints are before you decided to have a child.

You are both right to stick to your guns. Your viewpoint is as valid as his.

If you cannot agree for your child to be baptized, and he cannot agree for his child not to be baptized, you have a serious problem that wont go away. A compromise will be just a question of laying down the battle axe and agree for the sake of the other person, without any real agreement.

What happens if the child is baptized?
Nothing much, aside from your irritation. Partner and his family will be pleased.
Your child will have a real choice regards to religion, when old enough to make a conscious decision. They can embrace faith, or turn away.

What happens if the child is not baptized?
Nothing much, aside from discord with the inlaws, but you have peace in yourself for your own conviction.
But, the lack of baptism will close the door to entrance to a Faith school, primary and secondary. So should the child discover he or she is religious, that is a closed door, and that particular option taken away from him or her. Late baptism is in most places not a guarantee of a school place.

With the lack of baptism there is absence of confirmation (and first holy communion if Catholic), and in turn the child might have to convince a future priest to let them marry in a church.

Sorry you have to battle this one out.

I grew up in a very religious household yet have chosen not to christen my children as it is not something I believe in. I have taken the morals and values I have grown up with and hope to instill them in mu children bit felt christening them would hypocritical as you say.

I think that in your position, standing firm may cause tension within your family so I would go along the lines of saying something like.

"We have chosen not to baptise our child into a particular church but feel lucky that we have uou to teach our child about your religion. It is important to methat my child learns about all religion. For ththat reason we have decided to having a naming day and as FIL is a preacher, would be happy for you to give a blessing at the ceremony if you'd like."

Would that be something you would consider.

I'm not sure of how your family would take it. You shoild obviously only do what you feel comfortable. YOU are the parent.

My parents are Scottish. My Mums family, practising Catholics. My Dads family non practising Protestant. My father changed religion to marry my Mum. It was unheard of for men to change religion for the woman on Glasgow at this time. And despite the fact that there was no practising members of my father's family. Some of them stopped speaking to my father because of it.

My father said to my Mother that she could raise the kids Catholic but as soon as we came to an age to question it, that we were not to be pressured in anyway.

Your reasons are completely vaild and you don't need to explain further than that. Asking you to would be unreasonable. It's just a matter of phrasing it in suxh a way that won't cause a fall out. However if a fallout occurs, then you are not at fault. This is your child and you have thought hard about what to do I with your childs best interests at heart, therefore you cannot be wrong.

Quint - ah, was waiting for someone to come out with the school argument. Let's lie in a church in front of lots of people just in case it might help us get our child into a different school several years down the road. Why is it OK to be a hypocrite when it comes to our children?

Besides, the OP has already said that although her OH was brought up in the church, he himself has no religious conviction, nor does he attend church. So, surely it is a non-argument. If he himself went to church, then I could understand the need for a discussion. But there isn't, so presumably he only wants to do it for his parents to feel happy. NO, he should be putting his wife's opinion before his parents.

Being baptised will not hurt a child destined to be an atheist in any way. Not being baptised may mean the better state schools are not an available option for them.

I don't see why his parents' desire to see the a baby baptised outweighs your desire not to? Surely as the parent, your wishes trump theirs? Plus there is the factor that an infant baptism cannot be 'undone' as it were, whereas it will be perfectly possible for a child, adolescent or adult to get baptised if they should choose to when they are older. I just don't see why his parents' beliefs are relevant in this instance?

Is your FIL a lay preacher or a minister, and I'm wondering which denomination?

How well do you get on with your PIL's normally?

Obviously just my opinion that being baptised in itself is not harmful. My point is that you seem to have rather nebulous concerns, whereas the admissions criteria of many state school options is a hard and unpleasant fact.

As an atheist parent with a DD going into a CoE school, which she got into only because she was both baptised and her (Buddhist) mother took her to church, I'm more concerned with the exposure to religion she'll get in school, I'm hoping the good of a better education more than offsets the potential harm of religion. The baptism itself doesn't worry me. (School was her third choice, first two choice schools had religious requirements even stronger that we didn't meet.)

Quint - I completely agree with you on the lack of a faith is also a faith in itself. If I didn't care about my lack of a religion, then I wouldn't care about this situation.

I do disagree that we have a "serious problem and should have discussed this before having children" - we have a very strong, respectful relationship, and the discussion we had last night was not argumentative in any way, we both quite happily agreed that this is something that will require more discussion until we come to an agreement we are both happy with, because we both respect and admire each other's points of view.

The issue I take mostly is that OH doesn't follow a religion. Just because he was raised Christian doesn't make him one now if he doesn't attend church, he doesn't educate his daughter according to the church - even recently asking her not to recite the Lord's Prayer at bedtime as she is told to at school (another issue I have, for another day!), because she doesn't understand what it means, and until she does, it's not appropriate.

Thank you all for your input, it is incredibly appreciated. I had no idea about a thanksgiving or a blessing service, which I would be happy to do as a middle ground, and would be followed by a nice party with family and friends afterwards - having FIL do the blessing would be really nice and I know it would mean a lot to him, and make it more personal to us as a family - everyone is happy, and I get some cake at the end!

We've both come into this relationship as a result of failed horrible ones, and we are both in a place where all families get along and like each other, there is no issue whatsoever, the in-laws aren't bothered that we're not married either, everyone is happy that we're all happy, and the last thing I want is to cause a rift, but I can't compromise my own values for the sake of someone elses, and I respect that my OH feels the same way - the fact that you have pointed out to me that there is a middle ground has brought me much relief!

Thank you again everyone - you guys are fab!

Thing is, saying that not being baptised doesn't hurt an athiest implies that somehow, the views of an athiest are somehow less than that of someone with a religious faith.

Does it not hurt a Muslim to be baptised? It goes against everything they believe. A baptism goes against everything an athiest believes. Some people think that it's up to a person to make that decision for themselves - making a choice like that for a child is inappropriate, IMO.

OP, you have to resolve this with your DH. This is the biggest issue here. You can deal with the GPs - the same rule applies with this as with every other possibly contentious issue with GPs/children - they had their time to raise their children, and now it is YOUR choice, not theirs. But this issue with your DH may not go away. You need to talk to him.

Additionally, the school thing is a non-issue where we are - DSD school is CofE and I know there are children there who haven't been Christened, because I know the parents. Round here, it's more about available place sin the catchment areas. We're also a small town with only one secondary school - everyone goes there regardless of religious denomination.

I'm in scotland so don't know if this makes a difference but I'm not baptised and went to a state catholic primary school? The non-dom was the other end of town and the catholic one was round the corner so that's where I went.

Neither dh and I are from not very religious households,though mil does go to church and help out with the sunday school. When we got engaged we were asked if the wedding would be in her church to which I replied it wouldn't as neither of us are even the slightest bit religious so to me it was hypocritical, i'm not going to make vows to a god I don't believe in. That meant we didn't have the christening issue to deal with! We have however had a humanist naming ceremony for dd which even my (slightly hand wringing) mil agreed was a much nicer service than a christening. She has guide parents who take the responsibility of that very seriously,we made vows to love,protect and comfort her and it was a really moving service. Perhaps that might be a good compromise?

Incidently I heard years ago that if you aren't christened then your kids can't be, is there any truth in that?

There's a big difference between following a religion, which is man made, and having a faith.

I told my DH if he wanted DD christened, I wouldn't stand in his way but I'd be in the congregation as I couldn't promise to raise a child according to the church when I'm not religious and don't even have faith there is a God.

He understood and decided not to go ahead, saying DD was free to choose that for herself when she was old enough to make the choice.