...to not want my child baptised?

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OH and I don't have any religious affiliations. I was raised in non-religious, liberal household and left to make my own choices. I chose athiesm, although not in an outspoken, "everyone else is wrong and religion is evil" way - I just don't have any belief in a deity of any kind.

OH was raised in a very Christian household - church every Sunday, choirboy. His mum still goes to church every morning before work, his dad is a preacher.

Despite my upbringing, I was still baptised at 9 weeks old - according to my mum, "It's just what you did back then". Which I do question quite often.

OH has a daughter from his first marriage - they baptised her when she was nearly 2 years old, and her godmother is Jewish!!!

We now have one on the way, and we were talking last night and have found this appears to be the only parenting point we don't agree on - and we need to decide what to do. His parents WILL pester us until there is a baptism. They've never asked about or questioned my faith or lack of, and they accept that OH doesn't go to church or practice a faith.

I feel that if a child is to be "welcomed" into a place of worship at an age when they aren't aware what's going on, they should be welcomed into them all, allowing them to make a decision when they are older. Failing that, to not do anything, and when they are old enough to actively choose a religion, or not as the case may be, I would support them in whatever they wish to do. And that's any faith - I really don't care. What I do care about is pressuring them from Day One into a faith that they may not want to be a part of.

I will have no issue with OH's parents taking my child to church - I feel it very important that religion is taught and experienced so that they have all the information to decide for themselves. I also have friends of other faiths and I would be happy for them to take my child to their place of worship should they be caring for them at the time.

What I'm really asking is if I should stick to my guns, and make it clear how I feel, or for an easy life just give in and allow a Christening to take place? If that were to happen, I do seriously feel I couldn't take part, and stand at a font and say words that I don't believe in, and make promises I won't keep - I won't be a hypocrite on this as I feel it will give the wrong impression to my child as they grow older, like I feel towards my mum about my Christening.

Sorry, this ended up being longer than I thought it'd be. Let the flaming commence! (Sorry, no pun intended)

On a practical point... although it is possible to get baptised later in life, it is more awkward and may potentially prove to be an unwanted barrier if she does want to explore faith later in life.

If your DH wants it then I would suggest you allow it. You don't need to throw a big party or make a big deal out of it. but I am the Xian partner in our house so maybe my view is biased

OP, though I respect your views, I think I would go with baptism, as it does no harm, and you intend to let your DC go to church anyway.

Could I suggest that you go and talk to the vicar/priest? Be completely honest about your reservations - this situation is not at all unusual. You do not have to make false promises, and you will not be encouraged to, you can just be a witness at the font (if you can stomach that).

mrsleomcgary - I have no idea! DO you get a Christening certificate, like you do a Birth or Marriage one? If I've got one, I've never seen it! Or do the churches keep a record? What if you move far away and have to prove it somehow? Surely any place of worship should be happy to welcome anyone wishing to join their congregation, whether they come from that background or not?

I may look into the humanist naming ceremony too - I've heard of them before but just brushed them off as an attempt to please everyone. Now I'm in that situation though I feel I should at least look into alternative options. I don't want to be defiant about it - I want everyone to be happy as the whole family is so excited about this baby (first grandchild for my family, 4th for OH's parents, but after the history with his ex-wife they're so happy that he is happy and are incredibly supportive so far).

I had a shitty childhood where my family just fought and argued over everything, and as a result my dad's side of the family are no longer in the picture. I want my child to know happiness, and know all of their family, where we all work together know each other, including our beliefs and lack of. It is important to me that they learn about religion, however I don't ever want them to feel pressured into it.

Would you consider to explain to the family that you think your child should be old enough to make his/her own decision? In the meantime, you could have either a non-faith naming ceremony which could or could not include a blessing by your DH's father?

The only issue I have about your post OP is what you say about your mum. It was the done thing back then, I feel a lot or resentment from you and really I understand how you feel but nothing good will come out of you having and expressing those feelings towards your mum.

Sisyphus - why would it be an unwanted barrier? Why does not being christened or baptised stop you exploring faith later in life? I was never christened when I was a child. My father came from a Catholic background but hated it and my mother from a Methodist background. Neither went to church. Neither tried to persuade me to go to a church.

In later life, I became a Baptist and took adult baptism. My lack of being christened as a child didn't hold me back.

I think, too often, too much store is set in denomination rather than religion or faith.

I'm on my phone just now spence but when I get on the computer i'll email you the script from my daughters ceremony so you'll see exactly what they're like.

I don't remember where I heard that,it was years ago. I think you do get a christening certificate from services i've been to,and I'm sure there will be a record at the church.

Joysmum - I actually stated this last night too, about being in the congregation and not a part of the ceremony itself if I were to allow it to go ahead. It would make me feel sad though that I wouldn't feel able to take part in that part of my child's life, when it's seen as such a big deal to other family members, and the aunts and uncles that will attend may question why, and I have to spend the rest of the day explaining myself and trying to be convinced to join the church.

I feel if they are to be baptised as an infant, it's because they are regularly involved with the church from that age. We aren't. The key point here is that I would be very likely to happily let it happen if OH did go to church regularly, as it would be a part of the child's life and therefore it would be important to me that their father taught them about what is important to him.

An earlier post said about being aware that FIL might just do it anyway, and I do want to point out that I am confident that would never happen. While their beliefs are strong, they are incredibly respectful and I know they would never do anything to deliberately upset or anger us, especially with something like this. It's another reason why it's a difficult situation, because everything is just so good, and I want for it to continue.

needaholiday - maybe part of it is because some people feel that it's important for extended members of the family, grandparents, etc, family tradition?

mrsleomcgary - thank you, that would be lovely! We still have quite some time to discuss this, but even before found out I was pregnant we had discussed it as a "potential issue" - I'm just so thankful that we are talking about it so amicably - it makes me know I've picked the right man that's for sure, it's just about getting this balance right!

DO you get a Christening certificate, like you do a Birth or Marriage one?

Yes, we had to send copies of baptism certificates to schools we applied to. (I see you live somewhere where this is not an issue.)

NotNew
I too know many people that have been baptised later in life. And obviously as a baptist they only do adult baptisms.

But, for my DH for example, although he is christened he is not confirmed, so if we go to church he does not get to take part in communion, and I think he feels a little left out. He often says he would like to go more often, and like to become part of the church... but ultimately that means having to have a conversation about adult confirmation and he is not sure he wants it. So he's stuck in a catch 22 where he feels awkward that he is not part of the club, but because he is not part of the club he is awkward about joining.

Baptism and confirmation are not hard barriers to overcome - but they can act as a barrier to people that don't know if they want to make the effort to overcome them. If they are sorted when young, and frankly they are not making an informed decision, then at least all options are open later.

"Incidently I heard years ago that if you aren't christened then your kids can't be, is there any truth in that?"

No - well, at least I've never encountered this in the CofE or Catholic churches. They are usually keen to get as many children baptised as possible!

You and your DP and family all sound lovely, OP - I'm sure you'll find a good solution!

Sisyphus - your argument doesn't hold water then. Because it's not being christened that is the barrier but confirmation, which is a separate thing entirely. And the position he finds himself in is not of his parents making but his own, and one he could rectify easily. For some reason, he chooses not to and think it's awkward. Not his parents fault!

I am a Sunday school teacher, and church council member, and I can't see any point in making vows you don't believe in. One thing you might like to consider though is a welcoming/thanksgiving/naming ceremony, which many churches will carry out. (My experience is mainly of Methodist and Unitarian churches, but I think C of E do them too. Not sure about Catholics). You wouldn't have to promise anything that you had no intention of doing, and the gps would be able to have a celebration to welcome the baby into the world. My dyed in the wool atheist dh really enjoyed ours, making vows to the baby, and acknowledged that if there was a God, that he wouldn't at all have a problem saying thank you to him/her for our dd!

My upbringing sounds similar to your OH's. We didn't get our DC baptised as babies.

I do take them to church every now and then, because I want them to know what to do/how it works/have some idea of what they are choosing or not choosing. They know I believe in God, and they go to Church schools. I haven't told them to be Christian but they have come to that decision themselves (for now at least) and they then asked to be baptised at ages 7 and 8.

My Dad the vicar never ever minded/commented on our unbaptised children. However FIL found it rather scandalous, even though he is not a church goer he felt we weren't doing it Properly....

NotNew
I really don't disagree with you - he could choose to sort it out if he wants. Jesus after all decided to be baptised when he was an adult and a follower of John the Baptist. And although confirmation is the issue for DH, if he were not baptised that would just double the number of ceremonies he would have to go through.
If someone wants to become a Xian they can, very easily, do so at any point in life. My point is that, in the Anglican church, it is easier to decide if you want to become a practicing Xian later in life if you have gone through the rites of passage as a child. For historical reasons those rites are designed around childhood and if there is a reasonable chance the DC would want to explore that later, then I would recommend just getting it over with.

We haven't baptised our children despite having a strong faith and the only Christians in the family.

We're baptist (though both grew up Presbyterian) and had our dc dedicated, but are leaving them to decide for themselves once they are 16 or older. Dd1 is 14.5 and has already planned for her baptism on her 16th birthday.

I don't see the point of infant baptism, from a theological pov. Might just be me though and we don't need baptism from a school admission (and we'd probably not have done it anyway).

I'm Baptist, and we have dedication for infants and adult baptism.

I do think that if neither of you are Christians then I really don't understand why you'd get your child baptised. Also as a preacher, your fil should be well aware that an infant being baptised doesn't make them a christian and doesn't 'ensure their place in heaven' etc.

You sound very measured and sensible, OP. I think a blessing service would be ideal in your circumstances.

I was the one to suggest FIL might take matters into hisown hanhands. I'm glad you think this highly unlikely. Involving him in the blessing would be a lovely gesture.

FatalCabbage - thanks, I couldn't remember where the post was, the responses are all much more than I was expecting, which is great!

Yes, FIL can be a bit of a PITA, but it's more just the way he is, when it comes to church and preaching etc he is very respectful, and I've never had to sit at the dinner table and listen to anything, it's all done in church or at events. I do think it would mean a lot to him, but whatever we decide I need it to be right for everyone. I don't want to be a bitch about it, because it'll just cause more problems than it solves!

Maybe a personal ceremony at my parents (very well kept unlike ours!) garden with a few speakers would be nice...then an afternoon tea. I do enjoy a good scone...

On a practical point... although it is possible to get baptised later in life, it is more awkward and may potentially prove to be an unwanted barrier if she does want to explore faith later in life.

Unless they want to 'explore' another religion - surely 'exploration' should include other faiths, in which case baptism into one particular faith would be at least a minor barrier! I'm also pretty sure that there is nothing 'awkward' about getting baptised later in life, particularly given that some faith actively encourage it, and there is no limit on learning and education regardless of your baptismal status.

Scones FTW. We no-sugar so fruit or cheese scones are a guilt-free treat.

You do get a baptismal certificate (in the CofE and RCC for sure, not sure about other traditions). It doesn't have any legal significance as far as secular law is concerned, but it is an official Church document. The only times I can think you might need to produce it would be for things like school admission, maybe marriage (especially if marrying in another denomination), if you were (say) converting to RCism and needed to prove you had been validly baptised, and probably if you are being considered for ordination.

It would not be asked for if you just rocked up at another church and wanted to worship there - communion is generally open to all who say they are baptised, no need to prove it.

In some traditions at baptism you are given a baptismal candle which you use at various points through your life: at confirmation, at your wedding, and at your funeral.

I was baptised as an adult: I'm not sure I would baptise my own children as infants, apart from the school issue. It's nice to be able to remember your own baptism.