To wonder why some atheists are so obsessed with being atheist?

[Fanfeckintastic]

I say this as an atheist myself, so many people seem obsessed with "not believing"! I don't mean just being vocal in their disgust at the Catholic church etc (completely understandable) I mean Ricky Gervais for example, somehow I have "liked" him on Facebook and he never stops posting skeptic stuff.

Why do non believers put so much effort and thought into "not believing"

On a side note, I'm in Ireland and sometimes get very pissed off with how much control the church still has, it sickens me actually. But I'm talking about just atheists almost making a hobby of being atheists?

AIBU in my observation?

Freudianslipper- you are a crystal therapist and I claim my £5.00

Freudian, I would say that feeling at one with something bigger than themselves is not actually religion, but rather using a religious framework to explain a good, natural feel to themselves and others. Most people get that feeling when out in nature, like watching waves roll in, or the sun set somewhere particularly beautiful. It's being an animal at one with the rest of the natural world though.

And feeling close to someone who has died isn't religious, that's just your love continuing. The same woth the objects of the deceased - feeling a warm glow when you look at your late Gran's carriage clock on the shelf is just having happy memories and feelings of love evoked by something meaningful to you. These have got zero to do with religion or the supernatural, and are felt by most or all people at some time or another.

So of course people aren't deluded that these are very real feelings. They're just deluded when they think a deity or supernatural reason is behind them.

Someone believing something doesn't give it any credence. When I was a child, I was utterly convinced that if I stuck a hand or foot outside of the bed, a big knife-cage contraption would come down and cut it off. I held this belief as fervently as any believer believes in their god or gods. And it was still as utterly wrong and bullshit as those beliefs too.

What I don't get is feeling something unusual or bigger than usual emotions or reactions and then going straight to something spiritual or supernatural as the reason or cause. I mean, I know that we are culturally trained to do this, and we do this as kids, but one would hope that people would be more mature, intelligent and rational than that. Why would someone leap to some bizarre, illogical, unprovable notion as an explanation? And why would they think it holds more credence as an explanation than anything more logical?! It's not something that should be encouraged, or respected.

No I am not

My name may give you a clue

If you're a therapist, then I get where you are coming from from a professional point of view.

Pressed post too soon - meant to add, if you are a therapist of some sort, then surely you deal with people who are convinced that things are true or 'how the world is', when they're clearly wrong, on a daily basis. Your job is to help them work through those in order to gain more peace, balance, and so on. How come religious ideas hold more weight than any other beliefs formed for whatever reason?

but many people do believe in a power or the supernatural this is what they are sometimes, not always describing.

Messages being sent to them from people who have died by seeing a particular object (was not meaning a piece of furniture maybe a rose blossoming a feather blowing in the wind sorry did not decribe that very well) a power that is more powerful than themselves is often how they are describing what God means to them sometimes it is not

So FreudianSlipper you'd be OK with asking a psychic dog (via its handler of course) if a planned industrial action is acceptable?

because my reality is not their reality

it is not about their belief proven or not it is the inpact it is having on their life that we can hopefully work through

if they are in danger of harming themselves or others it becomes a differrent issue and I work along with others in MH profession

I work with many people who have a label this is not how I define them by their label be it a medical, religious or criminal label

Yeah, it's great that these thoughts bring them peace, and I have no problem with that. But they ARE deluded. Let's not be silly.

no shockingly

I am not sure if you have read my posts why you would think that interesting though

Because I am trying to work out which supernatural special pals are OK and which are not.

ah well that is something maybe you know yourself

No I do not think they are deluded. I may not have the same beliefs as some of my clients but that is irrelevant (in the examples I have given, these are not actually from clients I have seen as that would be unfair but have had clients with similar experiences)

point I am making is how can I myself decided what is a load of tosh and what is not when I work within a theory based framework (no crystals involved)

Yet to read entire thread, but population of South Germany was about half and half Catholic and Lutheran at the time of the rise of National Socialism, so aside from 5% professed atheists, most of the rest of the party was probably half and half too. I take Thurlow's point; control was likely more appealing than actual religious practice.

As an ex Catholic atheist I'm sure this thread is going to be stuffed with interesting things - all this and Star Trek too, yay.

(Correction, no identifiable religion, not professed atheists).

You have to love the 'but that's not what Christians believe' arguments. I sometimes wish people could have a space under the post to sum up what they believe so I can keep track.

See, this week I've been talking to Christians on here who don't believe in Adam & Eve and see the suggestion as insulting and/or ignorant. Meanwhile the other Christians know for a fact that Adam & Eve exist because god has told them so, either in their heads or in the bible, and they are offended/sceptical of any suggestion that other Christians don't.

Point to an atrocity in the bible and someone will say "yes but they were ignorant savages", "times have changed" or "that's just metaphor", but 5 minutes later they are arguing that a 2000 year old chance remark must override democracy and human rights.

As for 'mental illness', I'm never sure if that's exactly the right term. Perhaps 'mental dysfunction' would be better? and then relative to the time/place/culture we live now. Perhaps those who joined a religion 3,000 years ago fared better than those who didn't so the urge is still there, but now less appropriate and potentially dangerous.

Human psychology is a bit of a mess at the best of times. We have all sorts of irrational predispositions which get in the way of making sensible decisions. Some are based on old instincts which probably made sense at the time, but don't now. Some are passed on culturally and are hard to shake as we don't notice we're following them. Not until we come face to face with the fact that what we always felt was right and true clearly isn't.

'but that's not what Christians believe'

Just to add to backonlybriefly's post...no one can speak for all Christians. Not current Christians or anyone else. Everyone will have different experiences of different religious teachings. I have been preached to a lot in my life. Church school, Sunday services, church wedding, family stuff too. When posters say here that the bible isn't what Christians believe, I almost feel gaslighted. The bible is preached, without nuanced discussion, particularly in schools. The general principles of Christian beliefs are very well known in the UK seeing as we have lived them for so long so don't tell me that all current Christians believe something far more enlightened as guided by their good book. If they do, they're hypocritically picking and choosing according to socially acceptable moral values despite the bible.

"ah well that is something maybe you know yourself"

What an intriguing comment. FreudianSlipper, I'd like you to elaborate on that one.

Sometimes I don't fully understand my own religious beliefs. In the same way that I don't understand why at the breakfast table this morning my son started crying pointing at the wall saying 'the man, the man'.

Op atheists can be smug, dismissive and rude. Christians can be self righteous, dismissive and rude. I've encountered both.

"When posters say here that the bible isn't what Christians believe, I almost feel gaslighted."

This exactly.

I am an ex-Christian and I was taught from the age of three that the Bible was literally true. It's not the case that "no Christians believe this any more". They do indeed.

i believe you know yourself what you believe, but I can not make the statement that you do

Loody hell, you're struggling if you don't understand your own beliefs. Here's a handy tip: if you can't make it make any sense, then it's bullshit.

Bloody, even.

Ah FreudianSlipper I maybe haven't been all that clear.

I'm ex-Kirk. That's the Church of Scotland, so that is Presbytarian (which is of course Protestant). I believed in their doctrines from when I was little to when I was 18. I went to schools where I recited the Lord's Prayer on a daily basis, we had daily religious assembly, we had daily sermons and hymn-singing (badly in my case, I dunno why they let me do it ). We had daily Scripture class (basic text was the NIV, we were allowed KJVs though).

I have stopped believing in invisible supernatural things. Being ex-religious sometimes catches me unexpectedly however. I have a life verse (ask any evangelical Christian pal about life verses!) and everything. It was how I lived my life.

I won't lose any sleep over it oxford