To wonder why some atheists are so obsessed with being atheist?

[Fanfeckintastic]

I say this as an atheist myself, so many people seem obsessed with "not believing"! I don't mean just being vocal in their disgust at the Catholic church etc (completely understandable) I mean Ricky Gervais for example, somehow I have "liked" him on Facebook and he never stops posting skeptic stuff.

Why do non believers put so much effort and thought into "not believing"

On a side note, I'm in Ireland and sometimes get very pissed off with how much control the church still has, it sickens me actually. But I'm talking about just atheists almost making a hobby of being atheists?

AIBU in my observation?

Iggi not quite sure where you get your stat from there that the majority of denominations see the founding part of Christianity as not literally true, but we'll run with it. OK then. How and why did sin come into the world, as the "majority of denominations" understand it?

What other parts aren't true? If your holy book is myth, allegory and other made up stuff, why does it have to have any impact on the lives of anyone else? I wouldn't expect a book of children's stories to be binding on people's lives. Why is the Bible different?

The nearest book to me, as I'm sat here in bed, is Tom Clancy's "Patriot Games". Clancy was very dodgy on Northern Ireland and his knowledge of Marxism was a bit lacking, but there are two messages in the book which I feel are quite important. Women can be successful and respected surgeons and it's wrong to shoot small children. Why don't we revere this text as well, if everything's about the overall moral message?

*FreudianSlipper" you said this: "to you they do not but to many many people they do they feel them who am I to tell that they are talking rubbish and unable to understand what they really feel as I can not feel or see it"

But the thing is you would tell them "You're talking shite" if they said loads of other stuff based on a supernatural force.

Here's my example, it's a true one, I had the cutting up on my wall for ages. There was once a well known magazine where you could ask someone who claimed to be channeling a psychic dog for advice. Apparently the dog could see into the future.

Somebody wrote in and asked the psychic dog, via his channeller, if they should take industrial action. IF THEY SHOULD TAKE INDUSTRIAL ACTION. THEY ASKED A PSYCHIC DOG IF THEY SHOULD GO ON STRIKE.

That's simultaneously hilarious and horrible. I don't really have words for it (normally in my union branch if someone isn't sure about taking industrial action they ring me up and have a moan. There are no psychic dogs involved). But how can anyone say that's weirder than a religious faith? After all, what happened was the person was unsure and asked his source of supernatural guidance for aid. And we have to respect that, right? And see it as totally normal, right?

It's just not controversial at all that the Bible c

Contains allegory, parables, poetry etc etc. no idea why the creation myths are viewed by you as the "founding part" of Christianity. Founding as in "beginning"? I suppose so.
Why should it have an impact? Well it shouldn't unless you want it too! If you want to live via the Tom Clancy book them go for it. I certainly don't believe countries/schools etc should adopt an enforced "Christian ethos".

Globally creation stories are very interesting. While obviously the details differ, they speak to a strong human feeling of being made by something "other" and in some cases of a special relationship between the creator and humans. Do this stem from a human need, or from a sense of how things are? That's the million dollar question (though I know how most people on this thread will answer it! )

Apologies for early morning spelling mistakes.

It is the foundation part of Christianity (apologies Igggi for clumsy wording!) because this is when sin entered the world. Without the central idea that we have all sinned and fallen, there would be no need for Jesus's sacrifice.

This is very much basic Christianity - I was Kirk (Church of Scotland) but I don't know how people could be any variety of Christian and not accept that there was a Saviour who made a sacrifice - a terrible one - to save us from our fallen state. If we didn't have a fallen state in the first place, what would be the point of any of it? If Adam and Eve did not literally exist, and that was an allegory, what was the allegory? If it's just that God created us all very naughty, you have at least three theological problems there.

There are parts of the Bible that cannot be explained away an' you're still Christian. Jesus can't be a really nice bloke and not a Saviour. The entire point of Christianity is human sin being repugnant to the Creator and Jesus being sent to redeem us.

I would agree that this is a load of old bollocks, never happened and the belief in it has had fairly horrific consequences. That doesn't change the fact this is the belief.

I've just been reminded that I was at a (reasonably evangelical) CofE service last week where the vicar talked about 'one of the tragedies of the Enlightenment' being to encourage questioning and an over-emphasis on evidence and proof.

Um.

Sin is an inevitable part of free will, I don't think there was ever a potential for humans to live without it. I'm drawn to the approach that sin is the state of being alienated from God; Jesus then being a method by which the alienation can be overcome.

I am an atheist. I don't understand people talking about degrees of atheism- you either are, or you're not. Do you believe in a God or Gods? Yes=theist. No=atheist.

What I am is a pretty vociferous secularist. A position I share with many people of all faiths and none.

I do think sometimes people think these two positions are the same.

Igggi in that case huge parts of the Bible are going to make no sense at all. If God as the Creator deliberately created people who were naturally inclined to sin and then punished them horrifically for sinning, how is he not evil?

Sin as the state of alienation from God is interesting but it doesn't explain two things. One, God is omniscient so no human sin can be a surprise to him. Would you punish people for doing something you knew they would do, watched them doing and refused to stop them before or after the event? Would you not then share some of the culpability?

Two, the "state of alienation" is remarkably ill defined. Hell? Feeling bad? What?

Celebrities use their status for a lot of things. Charities for example. I grew up in a Catholic household where as a child I wasn't really able to question it. Ricky Gervais has strong views on the subject and has even done a tour on Science and Evolution.

There are plenty of people in the world who feel strongly on giving their views on religion when it is clear that it is the cause of most wars around the world.

If Ricky Gervais is able to reach a generation of people to give them the opportunity to think differently from the views that may be 'enforced' on them at home, he may be able to make a difference. In a comedic way.

There is still a strong divide of Catholic and Protestant s under thw guise of Celtic and Rangers in Glasgow for example. Sectarian language is still openly used between the two that you can clearly see is passed down from generations rather than from practising religious football fans.

I think he's in the position to make a joke of something that causes so many issues and divides and reach the next generation so that potentially the next generation will be 'better educated' on the subject.

I follow Ricky Gervais as well and he often says, that if what he says offends you, then please defriend him. But I think a lot of his posts are insightful and comedic.

YABU. Atheists are discriminated against. For many people, declaring themselves as an atheist is like 'coming out', especially if they're from a very religious family. They are finding their voice.

In some countries (including England a few centuries ago) you would be put to death for declaring yourself an atheist, and even in the US they're treated like social pariahs. Having a strong voice is a way of identifying like minded people and sticking together.

I'm an atheist, but like many others of my generation (b 1972) it took a long time for me to realise that was ok.

Ilovelamp sectarian violence has bugger all to do with actual religion. It really doesn't. I can sing you all of "Up the 'Ra" but this has nothing to do with my views on transubstantiation. My dad can sing you The Sash, and he's never been in a church in the last 20 years.

Shock

Arse my fingers strike again.
Shockingly I don't believe God does punish sin, I think the sin is its own punishment. (Ie estrangement from God). Hell is a continuation of that, alienation from God. Though I am more inclined personally to take a universalist approach to salvation (lentil weaver).

Shockingly makes some good points that I always see Christians trying to sidestep in discussions - that when you look objectively at how the Bible describes God's actions, motives, and consequences, etc., then he actually comes across as a sick, abusive, murderous, narcissistic, dangerous, vile freak.

Even taking a simple contradiction like 'God is love' BUT you'll go to Hell and suffer for eternity if you don't worship him just indicates that he must be a fucking cunt and doesn't deserve anyone to give a shit about him, much less worship him. He comes across as the most abusive and psychopathic of fathers/husbands.

Of course, the good news is that he's just a fictional character, so he's not watching and judging anyone, and there's no Hell to go to.

The bad news is, people ruin their lives, and the lives of others believing such nonsense.

Also, Sin doesn't exist. Grown adults aren't really silly to believe such simplistic bollocks, surely? It must be so humiliating to be like that.

I get pissed off with atheists telling me what I think and believe.

Try being someone whose beliefs are based on logic, truth, reason, facts and what is provable, and living in a society where this is seen as trouble-making, aggressive, etc., because a belief in supernatural hokum with zero evidence behind it, which is used to enshrine inequality, bigotry and ignorance in both law and culture, is given privilege and seen as what's right and normal.

My mother objects vocally to the fact that DS says he doesn't believe in god. Apparently it "isn't nice"

This is the mother who didn't have me christened and has never once taken me to church.

My DS goes to a CE school and, along with some of his peers, talks openly in REessons about being an atheist. Not long ago that wouldn't have been allowed, and I know some parents still discourage their children from doing it (especially if they had to go to Church to get a place at the school :-)

"know some parents still discourage their children from doing it (especially if they had to go to Church to get a place at the school :-)"

Yep- I'd be ashamed if I had been that much of a hypocrite too.

The parents might genuinely believe (though I'm sure plenty are hypocrites) but that doesn't mean their children have to agree with them. I've met plenty of atheist children of vicars. I suppose that might be a little bit embarrassing for the parents, but not due to hypocrisy.

Igggi I'm all in favour of lentil weaving

Re sin being its own punishment, there is a problem here I think which is the eternal nature of the punishment. There was a serious crime committed within my own family. The perpetrator is doing a set amount of years without parole in the jail and he'll be out on life licence after, if he's ever granted parole. Although what he did is horrible, I'd be worse than he is if I wanted him to be tortured for an eternity.

It was the "had to go to church to get a place at the school" that brought hypocrisy to my mind- not sure why..........

Shockingly no I would not feel the need to tell someone what they believed in is a load of shite. Tell them like it is that would be my reality not theirs

OxfordBags the big man in the sky I believe is more from a Christian view as we have been created in his image. In Islam God is a power something that can not be seen or described visually

In my work people often experience a religious feeling that does not necessarily mean they are taking about Christianity etc they are often talking about a feeling of being at one with something more powerful than themselves, they talk of feeling close to someone who has died, objects that represent the person who has died. They are not deluded this is what they are feeling and maybe seeing and believing. My work involves many theories that are just that a theory but working with it I believe in my work so how could I dismiss others in what they believe

I am not a believer I am an athiest that is my belief it was never an issue for me (born earlier 70's) as my grandfather was (unusual for his age) and my mother is. I have lived in a Muslim country it was not an issues it was accepted but assumed one day I would find God.