To think that my friend isn't doing herself any favours

[legolammb]

A good friend of mine is looking for jobs at the moment after recently completing a very prestigious qualification. It's been nearly a year and she still hasn't got anywhere and is doing low paid shift work. She's had a lot of interviews with well-respected companies and academic institutions, so on paper she's brilliant. It's the interview stage that's the problem.

I don't think she's helping herself with her appearance. She has an 'edgy' hairstyle - think shaved bits and bright dye - and facial piercings. Our group at school liked to think of ourselves as the alternative crowd and had mohicans, tattoos etc, but most of us got rid of them when it came time to get jobs. She's not going into the City or law or anything quite as formal as that, but neither is she trying to get Media or Arts jobs where an interesting appearance is more tolerated. AIBU to think she needs to tow the line a bit more with her appearance?

Depends on how much she wants an employer who isn't hung up on such things I suppose.

I would automatically assume that facial piercings etc might reduce my chances.

But she is obviously very intelligent and knows this for herself.

As nice as it would be if it were not the case - Yanbu

Brokenhearted - don't want to go into too much detail but most interviews have been for lab jobs, so not too much public-facing work. I have friends who work in similar professions and they don't go into work in suits, but they do have more 'conventional' style

Yeah i don't think she's doing herself any favours. Does she realise that this may be the reason? Is she willing to tone it down to get her dream job?

Problem is I have no idea how to bring the subject up. She's sensitive at the best of times and is really down because of the job situation. We can talk really frankly about a lot of things but I have no idea how to approach this

It isn't just the fact that she has an edgy haircut and facial piercings. The fact that she doesn't tone it down in interviews will suggest to the company that she is a poor decision maker, and does not know when it is (in)appropriate to dress creatively. I sat on an interview panel which rejected a young man wearing a nose ring because it was felt he had shown he had bad judgment.

Well maybe you could ask her if SHE has any ideas about why she is getting to interview but not getting the job? That might lead onto a general discussion about areas that she might look at changing. Or you could ask if she is asking for feedback from her interviews? Or suggest that she speak to her former tutor or university lecturers (or whomever would be appropriate from her qualification) to ask for their suggestions - they may not be quite as reluctant to suggest her appearance may be partly at fault.

Has she asked for feedback from the interviews to see why she didn't get the jobs? Discussing that might be a way for you to broach the subject generally?

I knew someone like this. They toned their look right down in order to get the job they wanted. Then gradually reintroduced the piercings/style choices once her colleagues knew her better and recognised her ability to do the job.

Once they all knew and trusted her in the role no one cared.

She was intelligent about it.

If she's looking for jobs in academic research (this is where a lot of lab jobs are), then appearance isn't so important as long as she's made some effort to scrub up for interviews (ie hair/piercings wouldn't be an issue but they'd like to see that you've attempted to dress smartly). What might be a problem in an academic situation is that they already have an in house candidate lined up for the job. I would suggest sending out prospective emails/cvs to people she's interested in BEFORE a position is advertised- you need to get your foot in the door first.

MrsMal - she's phoned me a couple of times after getting the rejection calls and we've talked about feedback. It's all quite wishy-washy feedback with nothing much that she can work on experience-wise so next time we have a conversation about feedback it might be a good opportunity to broach the subject

Feedback from interviews is very hard to get. We were told not to give it, as it could result in litigation. "Your skills were not the right fit for this job at this time", is all I was allowed to say.

why doesn't she just go to the next interview dressed more conservatively and see what happens...?

You can get around this, though, and make her think, rather than point things out.

Ask questions about the work place when she has been for interviews. Ask what the people, the prospective co workers were like. What they looked like. How they dressed. Did the place differ in real life from the impression she got on the web site. Ask her if she could picture herself there, if they were likeminded people to her, whether they seemed to "fit " her and her values? You may be able to jog her mind a bit.

Finding the right employee is not just about finding the person with the right qualifications, but finding a good fit to get on with the other employees. This you can say, and ask her how she sees herself fitting in with the different employers she has seen. Tell her it is not just about find the right job for her, but finding a workplace where she will fit, gel, socialize into easily, and be happy. Turn it around to match the work place to HER.

The feedback will be bland. I've been involved in trainee selection for years. HR make us complete a form with brief details of why we didn't choose someone. HR have drummed into us that forms saying " candidate bored me rigid/looked weird/scared me/reminded me of that bloke from the office" etc will be returned for re-writing.

QuintessentiallyQS - I like the idea of that approach but don't know if she'll 'get it' when she hasn't after all this time.

To me it just seems like common sense that you tone down everything appearance-wise for an interview

I am sure your friend has perfectly valid reasons for not changing how she looks for interviews and I theory they all probably sound great. The fact of the matter is that societal norms are that in an interview you present your most public pleasing respectable face regardless of what the job is.
I interview for jobs in my role. If someone turned up for interview with alternative hairstyles and face piercings I would assume they don't want the job that much and would not hire them on that basis. If you are not prepared to follow basic interview etiquette it would seem you are deliberately trying to mess up.

One of my uni lecturers told me that before going to any job interview, go and sit in the carpark of the school/company/wherever you are going for the job at the start of the day and watch the employees going in. Model yourself on them, then take it one more step more formal/professional/conservative. Interview panels want someone who is going to fit in with the rest of their staff and if everyone is in black and white or business suits, or whatever, then they're going to be (subconsciously) looking for someone that fits the profile.

When discussing the next interview you could say something like "I read somewhere the other day that people with unconventional appearances are 50% less likely to get a second interview, even in your field! Shocking how stuck up/boring/biased interview panels can be isn't it? Next time try a twinset and pearls with a blue rinse ... Etc"

Or

"A friend of a friend tried for ages to get a job despite being well qualified and in the end she thought they might be prejudiced against her piercings, took them out and hey presto! Got a job straight away"

Agree with what the friend of Atrocious did - it makes sense to tone things down a bit for a job interview.

This is a very un PC thing to admit, but personally, I don't find facial pearcings or hairstyles involving chunks shaved off the scalp very attractive, so if I was on an interview panel, a person with that kind of style would probably have to work harder to impress me than somebody who had a more conventional appearance. There may be many others who feel similarly, so I think your friend would be wise to tailor her appearance/style to appeal to a wider section of society, in order to give herself a better chance of success.

If you manage to have a conversation with her about all of this, maybe you could show this thread to her, if the right moment presents itself? (Or maybe not - you did mention she is sensitive.) She's lucky to have you around, you sound like a good friend.

Oops, I meant Piercings, not pearcings.

I would be very wary of assuming you know why she isn't getting hired unless you know the field she's in very well.
If it's in academic research, it's probably nothing to do with her appearance, and everything to do with the academic jobs market being absolutely shocking at the moment.

It's quite possible that despite being very clever and having a great PhD that she is getting interviewed but not getting the job because there is a huge backlog of really excellent candidates with great research records and more experience than she has.

People who haven't been in the academic jobs market tend to assume it works the same way as most jobs do and it doesn't. Some early-career jobs attract hundreds of extremely well-qualified applicants, and most academics don't give a fig if someone in their lab has facial piercing and pink hair if they are academically brilliant. Unfortunately if your friend finished a PhD nearly a year ago, she will be competing against loads of people globally in a similar position, including some several years out of the PhD with lots more experience, stellar references from big-name profs, etc. I suspect if you try to tell her it's her hair that's the problem she might be quite upset!

Iv got facial piercings and tattoos. I take my piercings out and cover my tats up for interviews, always.

Sadly there are more candidates than there are jobs for all but a vanishingly small number of entry level roles - or any roles.

And like Defenbaker I'm going to stick my neck out too. Given the choice between someone with piercings and tattoos, and someone equally qualified and experienced without those extra bits of body art, I'd be likely to go with the one who hasn't closed doors to their future. The people I work with need to be public facing, and although most of our clients would cope with a couple of Ibiza type tattoos on an ankle, they'd start to twitch at facial piercings (apart from ears or possible nose), facial, wrist and hand tattoos etc.

Your friend hasn't made irrevocable changes to her appearance. To use my grandmother's language, she needs to 'scrub up'. Invest in a deceptively simple suit, haircut, shoes and bag.

And before anyone squawks, I would (and have) offer the same advice to a young man seeking his first career job too. Possibly skipping the bag...