To think that my friend isn't doing herself any favours

[legolammb]

A good friend of mine is looking for jobs at the moment after recently completing a very prestigious qualification. It's been nearly a year and she still hasn't got anywhere and is doing low paid shift work. She's had a lot of interviews with well-respected companies and academic institutions, so on paper she's brilliant. It's the interview stage that's the problem.

I don't think she's helping herself with her appearance. She has an 'edgy' hairstyle - think shaved bits and bright dye - and facial piercings. Our group at school liked to think of ourselves as the alternative crowd and had mohicans, tattoos etc, but most of us got rid of them when it came time to get jobs. She's not going into the City or law or anything quite as formal as that, but neither is she trying to get Media or Arts jobs where an interesting appearance is more tolerated. AIBU to think she needs to tow the line a bit more with her appearance?

everything traininthedistance said really

maybe it is the reason
maybe not

if it is academic related, probably not

This sums up my feelings on the matter:

www.huffingtonpost.com/jacob-tobia/genderqueer-professional-_b_5476239.html

I used to interview people. Possibly for more formal roles than your friend, but the principle is the same.

We all say we don't judge on appearance, but we do. It's human nature. If someone hadn't bothered to polish their shoes, that would count against them because I would think they generally couldn't be arsed.

If someone lacked common sense to the extent they didnt appreciate that many people find multiple piercings unattractive, again I would feel this demonstrated a lack of ability to make sensible decisions bordering on arrogance. Great in some roles, but not in others.

I would be tactful and gently point it out. ,

At my work (major employer, not a start-up), we're quite vocal about not having a dress code (except when visiting customer sites), and anyone who comes to the job interview wearing a suit obviously hasn't read up on the company.

Such a shame
I work in HR
I've hired people with extensive piercings and tattoos, when they have the best skills and behaviours for the role.

Why don't you say that because she looks so edgy and great that people can't handle it, and just for a laugh tone it down for an interview. I lost all my hair and wore a wig to one (£16.00) off amazon, treat it as a dress like a square dare. Tell her to you she looks great but so many people are scared of her look, or think she's too cool to work there.

I would also think about it from her perspective. A new job isn't just a matter of the employer finding a fit for the role they need to fill, it's a matter of the candidate being impressed with the company and feeling like they'll fit in.

If I go to a company and it's a corporate drabfest full of people who may as well be made of cardboard and who sit through the interview looking sour and ticking boxes, I am not going to want to work there, no matter how good the role sounds on paper or how good the pay is. I know it's an employer's market, but desperation can lead you down some horrible alleys sometimes... it's good to have standards.

That aside, the best interviews are the ones where you form a real rapport with your future colleagues, no matter how you or they are dressed.

I don't think you should say anything. I think you should listen and save the advice unless she asks for it.

A close friend of mine is a lab manager. She & her colleagues are very straight laced image wise, and I'm pretty certain she would immediately write off anyone who turned up for interview with technicolour hair, piercings & tattoos.

I don't particularly share her viewpoint btw but it seems par for the course in most places and sometimes one had to compromise a bit.

Good luck with talking to your friend - you will definitely be doing her a favour if you can raise the subject tactfully.

This reminds me of a woman who was showing me her house when I was looking to buy one. The entire hallway and one of the bedrooms were painted black (including the ceilings). I said to her "Oh, that's an unusual choice" she said "yes, well people told me to change it because I'm selling but I thought sod it , this is ME!"

Just like the piercings and the tattoos it is only superficial and could easily be changed or covered up but the point is the first impression isn't it?!

It depends on the workplace though doesn't it Constable? I have heard that at Apple they tell people NOT to wear a suit to the interview and I know from visiting their store that they celebrate different, quite trendy appearances. That is quite unusual though isn't it?

I'm not saying that you need to wear a sharp suit to every interview but smart dress and mininal piercings would be considered fairly standard wouldn't it? I have no idea if that is the case in labs?!

If this was a close friend I might have to say something, just to see if she had considered it. If she doesn't care that's fine but it would be a shame if she hadn't thought of it and this hampered her chances of getting a job.

Depending on the hair colour then presenting it neatly can make a big difference, wearing it down over the shaved bits?. I have non-normal hair colour (and used to have it shaved off one side).
I've always changed my nose ring for a discrete stud for interviews. Clothing wise (being gothy) I do tend to stick to black but corporate goth.
I work in labs (at a senior level) - and have been successful in nearly every interview I've attended. Does your friend go for an informal visit prior to interview? I'm guessing she's trying to get into BMS? If so it is very competitive now but showing interest in the specific lab and culture would count more for me than hair colour/piercings/tats. Having said that I do expect someone to turn up "looking smarter than nipping to the shops wear".

"corporate goth"....that sounds brilliant!

The academic job market is terrible at the moment, too many PhDs and post-docs who can't move on to permanent and so are just cycling round in teaching posts/lab assistants/research fellow jobs. I can't say whether or not the appearance is making a difference too, but there are plenty of people with great qualifications also finding it hard, something to bear in mind.

Corp goth blog here.

I have tattoos and unconventional hair also, and when working in a corporate environment we never had a dress code, and many people in the same office were more heavily tattooed and pierced than me. However, I kept mine covered, and did my time with "less extreme" hair (streaks instead of whole head etc), which opened the doors to more opportunities in the company. Despite them saying appearances had no bearing on things, it clearly did - it's the human nature thing again.

A few years later when setting up my own business, I deliberately went back to a "normal" hair colour, and covered up all tattoos when meeting with bank managers for investment money meetings. All went swimmingly. Once I had the cash, out came the real me and it's never caused a problem - but I do work in an artistic/niche industry where it's practically expected to be unconventional...

It shouldn't matter but it does when I first qualified as a mental health nurse years ago I had one small nose stud I was told by one of the big bosses to take it out I did ,nowctheyvare bringing in a bare below the elbow policy forall staff in clinical areas and tattoos are frowned upon I,m not sure what they are going to do about staff who have tattoos on their arms becausecof course it in no way reflects their ability to do the job .

I work in a tattoo studio as a body piercer, and we're forever discouraging younger people from getting very 'public' tattoos/piercings if they've indicated it could be a problem professionally - tattooed hands/necks/faces are called 'jobstoppers' for a reason.

You get people waxing lyrical about 'tattoo acceptance in the workplace', but the simple fact is that a great number of companies and businesses have a dress code and tattoos/piercings contravene that. It's no more discrimination than saying employees aren't allowed pink shoelaces, but I've known of people who deliberately get public skin tattooed in order to be provocative and fly in the face of 'workplace discrimination'. It's a bit childish.

I've worked in tattoo studios for 14 years and have a lot of very visible coverage, but should I ever apply for a 'straight' job, I'll be enquiring about their dress code and toning my appearance down accordingly - I don't see it as compromising myself, I just see it as having to wear a uniform. I'd be 'me' outside of work.

Apologies for the slight rambling tangent. I've got a 3 year old repeating himself in my ear and I'm... tense.

AnotherGirl I've never heard the expression "jobstoppers" applied to certain kinds of tattoos, and never thought of the idea of "public" and "private" skin in those terms. Thanks so much for the education!

An employer may translate a rebellious look as a potentially rebellious employee.

She should tone it down.

Mmm, , Id be suprised it makes a difference but if I were in her shoes I might tone it down a bit if I was still looking for a job after a year.

If it were a different type of job I could understand but for lab/science'y type work I am surprised. I find facial piercing to be a bit off putting but I wouldn't not employ someone because of it.

Downamong No worries, always a pleasure! ;)

I would concur with the pp who suggested it's nothing to do with her look and everything to do with the academic job scene. One year out of a PhD is nothing.

I take the view that if a candidate considers that looking weird is more important to them than getting the job, I will respect their choice.

So they look weird and they don't get the job.

Even my 16 YO DD knows to take her nose stud out for interviews.
I think you should just tell her.
Maybe you could use some of the posts here to broach the subject.