to ask why we bring children into this world when it's so shit?

[kirsten123]

I haven't got any children of my own.

I wish my mother had never had me. I'm 31 and all I have is a shit job, living in a rented room, miles away from my parents, overweight, alcoholism, debt, cheated on, dumped (different guys) - you name it, I've done it. But wonderfully, I can look forward to working til I'm 70.

Cheers for that. And to think a knitting needle could have solved the problem.

Honestly though - why do you have children when there is so much shit they will have to deal with?

OP I'm curious now as to why you started this thread, as you've stated (in one of yours) that it's because you can't have children?

You've also stated that your fiance left you, in a shitty way, but have another thread titled finally left the bastard, about you having left him? Sorry, but you're all over the place, are you still drinking?

Hello,

I'm sorry I didn't post again last night, I was in bed (praying for death!). Struggled to get up this morning.

My moods have been wildly all over the place recently. Sometimes I don't sleep for 24hrs and make loads of lists of how I need to sort out the weight/debt etc etc then I sleep for 24hrs straight and it's as much as I can do to get in the shower. It was during one of those more manic phases that I posted about how I was doing well after LTB.

To answer your query - re the broken engagement - the ex-fiance basically said he didn't want to get married but wanted to still date me. So I left. So in some ways I was dumped, in some ways I was the one who ended it. Hope that clears up the confusion. I was trying not to over-complicate my original post on this thread.

I am not drinking very much these days. I don't even enjoy that anymore!

Thanks for all the posts. And the honesty!

And yes, my mother is bipolar (or manic depressive as she was diagnosed in the early 1980s).
But no, I am not immediately suicidal.

When I said in a previous post that I "can't" have children it was because GP advised it may be hugely dangerous given possible PND etc. (I just didn't go into all that for the purposes of that particular thread) I have no idea whether I physically can/can't.

Have you yourself ever had proper diagnosis?

I meant diagnosis of things in general.

I think you need to see your GP and get a referral to a Psychiatrist if you aren't already being seen by one. Maybe a change in AD's would help.

You sound like I was when I was really depressed. I have Recurrent Depressive Disorder and finally am on top of things now that I'm on the highest dose of good AD's (Venlafaxine MR) and on an Anti-Psychotic (I got Psychosis with depression - not saying you do).

But it sounds as if you need to see a really good doctor and get meds sorted out, then have some kind of Psychology.
Don't have any Psychological therapy until you are in a good place mentally to have it because it won't necessarily work.

Now I'm 'happy' although I still worry about things I'm definitely not depressed. I can see that the world has it's faults but is generally a beautiful place and the future has possibilities.
Hopefully you will feel the same one day too x

It was such a long time ago that I originally went to the GP that I can't remember if I got a proper diagnosis. They just agreed I was depressed and gave me the pills and I've been on fluoxetine/citalopram 40mg ever since.

I actually feel so bad though that I don't WANT to get better, if that makes sense.

kirsten I think there are two things going on here.

One is that you have had a ridiculously tough life. You've been let down and you deserve better. Please go back to your GP and ask for help, you deserve this. Perhaps some talking therapies would help too once you are on medication that works better for you, you seem to have very low self-esteem. My DH is being treated for depression - he has been lucky, his first AD has worked for him and he is transformed. Please explore options, don't resign yourself to your fate.

The second thing is that if you aren't living with depression there are many wonderful things in the world. I don't even mean the beauty of nature and all that, I mean the simple small pleasures of life - a meal around the table with your family at the end of a long day, discussing life, the universe and everything with your children, that sort of thing. Some of the best days I have had have been spent doing nothing much, just sitting in the back garden playing with them, blowing bubbles, reading, making loom bands most recently. It isn't possible to take in the joys if you are as depressed as you are, though.

I really hope you will be able to access the support you need so that you can enjoy life - with or without children of your own, that's entirely up to you.

I think life is harder for some people and they get a bad deal from the start but others have a wonderful life. I'm thankful to be in the latter group and am expecting my second baby who I know I can give a wonderful and secure childhood, education, experiences to. Save tragedy befalling us, seeing what my kids will have in terms of safety and security makes me want to cry and rage for all the little ones (and their bigger selves later) who get treated badly, emotionally, physically, mentally and even just because of their environment. Some will survive well and others will seem ok but end up struggling with dependencies, loneliness, broken relationships later due to what they experienced in their earlier lives. Its not fair OP and its the luck of the draw what life you are born into and how much you suffer. I hope you can overcome the things that are making you miserable now. There is help but I don't underestimate how complicated fixing problems is. There are lots of fantastic things in life, I hope you find them.

Yup, life is shit. But I have no proof death is any better so hey might as well live while I'm here eh? It's not like I can give death a try and come back, so I'll have to suck up the shitness and get on with it I think.

Citalopram is the cheapest AD, that's why they give it out first!

I found that I got to 80mg then it stopped working for me. Then I was given Sertraline but that was no good either. They are both SSRIs and work on the Serotonin in the brain.

But I needed an SNRI which works on the Serotonin and Noradrenaline in the brain. So my Psychiatrist started me on a lower dose of Venlafaxine MR. I was still depressed so now I'm on the highest dose and it works well.

I really do think you should see a different GP and get a referral to an NHS Psychiatrist.
It really isn't normal to see the world so bleakly. I remember when I was depressed, it was as if I was seeing the world though a dark filter, I felt depressed underneath even when I was happy which doesn't make sense! You need to get sorted out because it's horrible to feel depressed all the time.

Ok firstly you need to get to your GP and let him/her know how you're feeling so they can help you.

Secondly, yes the world can be a horrible place, but it is also a beautiful world. What do you do for a living? Could you change jobs? Retrain? There's always something you can do to change things, even if its just small steps.

I haven't posted in this section of Mumsnet before, but Kirsten I really wanted to reply to you. Life isn't 100% hearts and flowers, but neither is it 100% darkness; it's a mix.

I was horribly depressed, praying to not wake up, attempted suicide a number of times (but just woke up eventually, no-one in RL ever knew), couldn't see the value in anything, just didn't want to BE. My mother had also told me that I should man up and deal with 'feeling a bit sad'. I think this is where you are now. I was fortunate to have a GP who referred me to an amazing counsellor, as well as the local psych services; the services tried me on various ADs, antipsychs and various doses until one worked (for me it was 200mg Sertraline), and the counsellor worked with me week after week for six years until I had resolved some of my issues and found a reason to live. It wasn't easy; I didn't want to try for at least the first three years, had no hope that anything could improve didn't see the value in them spending these resources on me, felt that I should be able to man up and just deal with it, but I finally reached a point where something clicked and I actually wanted to live. Nearly eight years after my first suicide attempt, I'm happier and healthier and no longer need ADs. I'm not going to say I never have bad days, but they're by far in the minority now and I can cope with them because I know that the bad stuff is outweighed by the good stuff.

My hope is that you can speak to your GP and get help. Try to ride out the bad stuff; anyone that tells you to buck up can fuck right off because it isn't helpful. You are worth more than what you are currently going through

I've been through some horrible trauma and life can be a real slog of suffering at times but, for me, my children make life meaningful. Nothing else matters to me, careers, status etc. Simple things make me happy, time with DC, walks in the country, watching a good film. Just something good each day helps. Also try get more help, CBT etc, you don't have to suffer and should be getting more relief. good luck.

I felt exactly as you do when I was having a bad time with my MH. I took some time to myself and thought about what I really wanted to do, cut some negative people from my life and set about making changes (albeit small at first!) to my lifestyle to achieve what I wanted. CBT really helped me as well in the sense that I acquired coping mechanisms for my low mood. However I completely agree with brdgrl, although I don't have any children of my own, I think that some people may have children in the hope that if they raise them well to question things and have a good set of morals/values they may actually bring about (good) change for future generations.

I did it by accident. Wouldn't be without her, love the bones of her but sometimes I do look around and wonder what the hell I've done, bringing her into this world. And yet I'll still (hopefully) go on to have more, planned this time. I've found it a weird kind of 'pull'.

Sorry you're feeling so hopeless :(

I don't know either, I have 3 and it makes me feel guilty at times.

ThinkIveBeenHacked said "Because children make this world worth living in"

Blimey. So those people who don't want or can't have children may as well throw in the towel then?

Not the time NotNew.

Little I totally disagree. The OP is clearly in a depressed and distressed state, thinks the world is a bloody awful place and said right from the word go she didn't have children. Do you really think it is helpful to tell someone who has said that that children make this world worth living in? To someone who is depressed that can be taken in a VERY bad way and was irresponsible.

Thanks everyone.

2 things though:

1. if your children are what bring meaning to your life then isn't that just passing the buck? They just have to have children and so on and so on.
2. i don't WANT to feel better and be medicated/counselled. I've decided that the tiny bits of niceness are not worth the shit.

kirsten speaking for myself, it isn't my children who bring meaning to my life. I had children because I believe that this is a good world to live in and that life is worth living. My children are part of my life but not all of it, as I am part of their lives but not all of it. There was a time when DH and I faced the possibility that we might not be able to have children - it was tough, but it did not mean our lives were meaningless. Our lives would have been different without the DDs, but not meaningless.

You sound as if you are in a very dark place - one where the bits of niceness are indeed tiny. As someone who is not in a dark place, I can say that the nice far outweighs the shit in my life. Is it not worth taking a chance on changing your treatment to see if it can be the same for you? What you have now is clearly not working for you, but that doesn't mean you have to accept the status quo. The choice is yours, of course, I just feel for you - you are clearly intelligent and articulate, with much to offer the world you live in.

I think we can all make ourselves a nice little corner and be happy and that includes you. There will be bumps in the road and poor health and disaster will affect most of us at some point but these things aren't what you should make your life about. Things change and bad times pass.

You sound pretty miserable at the moment.