To think these BTEC courses are not suitable for a law degree and that the college is giving bad advice

[DaisyPig]

BTEC Health and Social Care and BTEC Public Services?

A bit of background - my daughter is 17 and has wanted to go to university to study law since she was in year 8. She has always been very bright, was always in the top sets at school, etc unfortunately during her last two years at school she was very ill and spent most of it in hospital which made her miss a lot of school work. Because of this she only just managed to get 4 GCSE's A*-C - her teachers did say however that if she hadn't missed so much school she could have easily got the full set of 11 GCSE's which she took. She was still exhausted after her illness though and we all felt that it probably wouldn't be a good idea to send her straight to college or anything like that as she was still pretty much in and out of hospital for further tests and we didn't want to disrupt her education any further.

She has still always talked about wanting to go to university though and she has decided that she would like to go to college this September. She knew that her four GCSE's wouldn't be good enough to do A Levels so she wants to re-sit the ones she failed this year and then do A Levels next year.

However when we went along to an open day at the college last week they agreed that she doesn't meet the entry requirements for A Levels but they told us that because "of her age" she wouldn't be able to re-sit GCSE's this year to do A Levels next year. They said it was because next year she would be 18 thus "too old to start A Levels"

They then brought someone else over who then started talking about alternative routes and she went through a prospectus with us and recommended that my daughter did either a BTEC Public Services or a BTEC Health and Social Care to start in September. We were both a bit confused about this and the next conversation went something like this:

Me: She wants to do law at university, I'm not sure those courses would be suitable.
Advisor: Those courses are fine for uni, lots of BTEC students go to uni afterwards.
Me: But like I said, she wants to do law, would those be suitable for that?
Advisor: She could apply for any course she wants to once she's finished.

Well I'm not sure about the "any course" point and I could understand maybe a public services student going to university to study law afterwards, but health and social care? Really? .

After talking to someone else about the public services BTEC who explained a bit more about the course, my daughter hated the sound of it and felt it wasn't for her. He explained that it was mostly an outdoors based course and there were a lot of trips which wouldn't suit my daughter or her style of learning at all. He also said that they've been running the course for five years now and although a couple go to university afterwards (and usually to study criminology) most go straight into work. She felt it wouldn't prepare her for the academic side of a law degree at all.

My daughter is now upset and is looking at colleges further away but AIBU to think that neither of those courses (especially health and social care) would suit my daughter or be the best to go for a law degree afterwards? Or am I just crazy?

Try your local adult education college, most have a level courses with few entry requirements, and I know when I did a history a level through ours there were 6th form age kids there too who hadn't had to pay because of their age.

And no, yanbu.

Does she have any idea of where she would like to study law? If so, I would get in touch with the admissions tutor for the law degree and ask their opinion on the suitability of the BTECs.

Alternatively, take a look at the Open University law degree courses. You can usually access them with less conventional qualifications.

My DBro started his A-levels at a local adult education college when he was 27, finishing at 29. The college you visited may not allow 'mature' students (possibly for funding reasons - although no idea really), there is a 6th form college that was a 2 minute walk from DBro's house but they wouldn't let him go there because of his age, maybe that's why they're pointing her to what they can offer rather than what will actually help her get to where she wants to be.

I would very strongly encourage your daughter to do some work experience in a variety of law firms before deciding on law as a career. If she wants to go to uni to do law she could just phone up the admissions tutors at the places she wants to apply to and ask them what to do. They will be the ones reviewing her application after all.

Do a search on the UCAS site for law courses and various unis and look at the entry requirements for A levels and BTECs.

She can also ring a university's admissions team and ask their advice so that she has info from the horse's mouth.

Many colleges are cutting their GCSE provision due to funding reasons (retention/achievement is not great which impacts on funding). Some are offering them on an evening basis to adults who will pay full fee.

Is this particular college reducing its GCSE provsion?

Unless your daughter is in receipt of MTBs she will have to pay for her A Level courses if she enrols on them at age 19+.

It sounds as if this college is trying to find a way of letting her enrol on an equivalent level qualifiaction now so that she won't be facing fees for A Levels in a year or so time. For someone just wanting to go to university it's not necessarily bad advice, but as your daughter has a distinct career plan in mind, it might not be the best way for her and as a previous poster suggests, she should consider asking universities what they would accept for entry.

She does need to be aware though that enrolling at age 19+ she WILL have to pay to do A Levels unless she is in receipt of a MTB. Having no income or a low income will not exempt her from the fees - she is treated as an independent adult.

In theory you can get into a Law degree on an any subject at A level basis. You may get in with a BTEC if its at the right level or an Access to HE diploma.
www.kcl.ac.uk/prospectus/undergraduate/entryrequirements/name/law
They seem to require BTEC Level 3 plus other qualifications unless you do the Extended Diploma

This booklet might help
www.russellgroup.ac.uk/informed-choices/

Law is a heavy subject and post university training and work can be brutal in the early years (especially in some of the very big firms). Your DD will have to think about how she is going to manage her health problems if they are still ongoing when she starts her degree. e.g. could she do a part time degree if full time would be too draining.

Our 6th form, and many of my friends', allowed admittance such as your daughter's. Could you try the local schools instead of colleges?

have you thought about an access course? you have to be 19 to take it but gets you to uni I have just taken one in health science with my core subjects being biology sociology and psychology and successfully got a place to study nursing at uni. However my college also offered access courses in law, social science and politics. quite a few people on my course were also taking gcses alongside the access course. most universities specify 5 gcses at a-c grade including maths English and science. some universities offer acess courses directly throught them so might be worth looking into!

It's because of the funding. She will not be eligible to do A Levels if she starts next year.

If her health has improved significantly and she can get a reference from her old school clearly explaining why she only got 4 GCSEs, and what she would have got if her health had been OK, I think your best bet might be to appeal to the college to admit her onto an A Lvel course despite the fact that she won't have met the usual entry requirements.

maybe she could do one extra GCSE alongside, so she has 5 at least (assuming she has Maths and English?)

titchy
It's because of the funding. She will not be eligible to do A Levels if she starts next year

She will be eligible to do A Levels next year, but they will not be funded by government agencies unless she is on a MTB.

Funding is reduced for 18 year olds (thanks government!), so a student enrolling at age 18 is worth approx 18% less than a 16 or 17 year old enrolling. This might be why the College wants to enrol her now on a 2yr programme rather than receive less funding for her at age 18 on a one year programme or DD having to pay full fees at 19.

There certainly looks to be a funding issue which is making them reluctant to let her follow the path she wants, but she is certainly ELIGIBLE to do A Levels at any age she wants - she might have to pay if she is 19+ or the college may not enrol her to do them at 18 because they will receive less funding than a 17 year old doing the exact same course so there may be barriers in her accessing the programme but there is no age restriction whatsover on doing A Levels.

They probably don't have the facility to charge fees as they don't cater for fee payers, and may not having the funding agreements in place to claim funding for a 19+ student. School sixth forms for instance cannot accommodate kids beyond three post 16 years.

But yes of course anyone can do a levels, but clearly this college doesn't have to take her.

Agree talk to uni admission tutors about what they'd accept for entry. I'd actually go be a bit cheeky & ask if she could pop into a couple of lectures/shadow a student for a day or two to help her look good on her UCAS form decided if it will fit with her health issues (if they're ongoing).

What about BTEC Business? That has choices that seem more suitable in that you pick two of the three areas to study, the three are Law, Accounting and Retail. Ds is doing that in September, he's 20 and will do Law and Accounting as his choices.

Yes, OP is it a sixth form college or general FE college?

FE Colleges are generally preparing to take the hit on reduction in funding for 18 year olds and not discriminate against them when recruiting, but I don't think this is true of sixth form colleges.

I suppose this is all abit of a deviation really though - you're right to query the advice given as my instincts are telling me it has been driven by funding considerations rather than your daughter's career path.

Depending on whether she would be 18 or 19 when enrolling on A Levels they might be trying to benefit themselves or her! If she would be 18 when enrolling on A Levels, I think they're thinking "she's not as valuable". If she'd be 19 I they might be thinking "poor girl will have to pay full fees, what can we do now to avoid this for her?"

Law is very competitive- as is getting on to a law course. She would be better taking A-levels IMP but will need very good grades.

Long time back now but I was told you might be accepted to do A levels with less than 5 gcses if the lack of exams were due to illness and you were capable of doing the A levels.
Is she lacking the exams or is her knowledge not up to the level of those gcses?

No I don't think the BTEC courses would be good for a Law degree but they may be good for someone with 4 GCSEs. Would funding more GCSEs and then A levels yourself be a possibility?

no, and even if she got on a law course at a good university, most companies hiring trainees have strict rules about what grades and subjects they want them to have. Having spent another year to get her GCSEs wouldn't be a barrier for most graduate trainee schemes, but not having them might be. Just doing hte minimum to get on a law degree isn't enough, unfortunately.

Law is a very traditional and quite snobbish profession. I would advise against her doing BTECs because of that. She needs GCSE's and good traditional A levels.