To think these BTEC courses are not suitable for a law degree and that the college is giving bad advice

[DaisyPig]

BTEC Health and Social Care and BTEC Public Services?

A bit of background - my daughter is 17 and has wanted to go to university to study law since she was in year 8. She has always been very bright, was always in the top sets at school, etc unfortunately during her last two years at school she was very ill and spent most of it in hospital which made her miss a lot of school work. Because of this she only just managed to get 4 GCSE's A*-C - her teachers did say however that if she hadn't missed so much school she could have easily got the full set of 11 GCSE's which she took. She was still exhausted after her illness though and we all felt that it probably wouldn't be a good idea to send her straight to college or anything like that as she was still pretty much in and out of hospital for further tests and we didn't want to disrupt her education any further.

She has still always talked about wanting to go to university though and she has decided that she would like to go to college this September. She knew that her four GCSE's wouldn't be good enough to do A Levels so she wants to re-sit the ones she failed this year and then do A Levels next year.

However when we went along to an open day at the college last week they agreed that she doesn't meet the entry requirements for A Levels but they told us that because "of her age" she wouldn't be able to re-sit GCSE's this year to do A Levels next year. They said it was because next year she would be 18 thus "too old to start A Levels"

They then brought someone else over who then started talking about alternative routes and she went through a prospectus with us and recommended that my daughter did either a BTEC Public Services or a BTEC Health and Social Care to start in September. We were both a bit confused about this and the next conversation went something like this:

Me: She wants to do law at university, I'm not sure those courses would be suitable.
Advisor: Those courses are fine for uni, lots of BTEC students go to uni afterwards.
Me: But like I said, she wants to do law, would those be suitable for that?
Advisor: She could apply for any course she wants to once she's finished.

Well I'm not sure about the "any course" point and I could understand maybe a public services student going to university to study law afterwards, but health and social care? Really? .

After talking to someone else about the public services BTEC who explained a bit more about the course, my daughter hated the sound of it and felt it wasn't for her. He explained that it was mostly an outdoors based course and there were a lot of trips which wouldn't suit my daughter or her style of learning at all. He also said that they've been running the course for five years now and although a couple go to university afterwards (and usually to study criminology) most go straight into work. She felt it wouldn't prepare her for the academic side of a law degree at all.

My daughter is now upset and is looking at colleges further away but AIBU to think that neither of those courses (especially health and social care) would suit my daughter or be the best to go for a law degree afterwards? Or am I just crazy?

I mean, would it be similar to an apprenticeship where you essentially do the studying for the job and do the work experience at the same time? And are you guaranteed to be working in the legal profession afterwards?

I am sitting next to a former careers advisor who has worked a lot with graduate recruitment in law firms and with law undergrads. He is shaking his head in disbelief that anyone thinks those courses will get anyone onto a law degree.

I've signed up just to reply to this.

Provided she get DDD or if the course has DDD* then she needs to get that (i.e. she needs to get the highest grades available) then your daughter will be able to get into law school with that, maybe not an amazing law school though.

I did a BTEC in Animal management (got DDD*) and got accepted onto a law degree. Transferring degrees now the first year is done as it's not for me, but with top grades and a kick ass personal statement then it is entirely possible.

Mrsbell

CILEX is the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives, www.cilex.org.uk.

Legal execs are the 3rd branch of the legal profession along with solicitors and barristers. They are fully qualified lawyers that tend to specialise in particular areas of law. I've worked with many over the years in the public sector and they do equal work and have the same pay scales as solicitors there. They can also become partners now in private practice and advocates with higher rights of audience.

There are big advantages to the Ilex route in that it is much more accessible, you don't even need a-levels. It is sort of an earn as you learn type thing thus avoiding the huge student debt. Fellows dont require a training contract either should they wish to have the dual qualification.

Back in the day solicitors didn't do degrees either!

Haven't read the full thread but will the college admit her with medical evidence in addition to her gcse results, plus a reference from her old school? Then she could begin A-levels right away.

I'm sure others will have mentioned Access courses.

There is no age limit on doing GCSEs or A levels. Law is a traditional subject. Go the traditional route!
This!

I think she needs to look beyond the law degree. Does she want to be a lawyer? If so then she has next to no chance with a BTEC. To be honest she'll struggle with having done her GCSEs in two sittings even though she has an explanation since many firms won't even look at the explanation and why would they take the risk that its actually just an excuse when they have 20+ applications for every place from straight A* students with firsts.

Sorry but law is ultra competitive and it upsets me to be honest that the universities take so many kids onto the law degrees and give them false hope. Law is changing dramatically. Mid level lawyers are on the decline. Law firms want paralegals (earning very little) to support the senior lawyers. To get a training contract you need a mixture of excellent academics, connections and luck.

Is it possible to redo some GCSE this year and start a couple of a levels in courses she passed. And add a couple more a levels next year after her retakes? So like a 3 year staggard this with smaller costs to finish the later started a levels?

How about home ed for resit GCSEs and A Levels?

At the moment, on paper, your dd is not a high flyer, you both have to consider if she will be in the near future. Missing a lot of school doesn't just impact on the number of GCSEs it impacts on your ability to learn how to study.

I totally understand why the college was offering BTEC, Level 3.BTECs do get you in to uni. They don't get you in to a top uni for a competitive course.

Having said that they do get you on to midwifery which is a competitive course.

So things to think about.

Does she want to be a lawyer/solicitor of some description?
Does it matter to her where she studies law? My local uni takes BTEC MMM for an LLB

courses.wlv.ac.uk/course.asp?code=LW017H33UVD

Where does she want to be in 5 years time?

If she just wants to study law and doesn't care where then she can do a BTEC, if she is looking for a 'good' uni then she will need AAA at A Level, is she going to manage that?

Another thing to consider is her health, BTEC can be quite flexible, I have created 'self study' units for a student who was not able to get in to college. There are some exams now, it is not all course work but the course work can be completed at home.

Also health and social care might sound totally non law but some legal aspects are covered. We do not go in to details of case law but we do look at laws to do with discrimination, health and safety and some employment law, child protection.

Another thing to consider is can she apply as a mature student? Not now, but in 2 years time? Maybe do some home study, see if her old school will enter her for the GCSEs she failed, as that will be cheaper, and then do 1 or 2 A Levels again as home study possibly along side a part time job.

My boyfriend did his A-levels at 20 due to a family situation. There are colleges that cater for adults and you can redo GCSEs there.

I think resitting her GCSEs will be the first step, then next year will be the time to commit to whatever other course, A level, quite feasible at college although you might have to py exam fees at 19, or BTEC, the level 3 achieved at distinction is worth 3 A*s at A level. Alternatively there is the IBAC, which is very highly regarded at universities.

If she does well at GCSE next year on resist she might be able to get a scholarship or a bursary.

Hello everyone, I have returned to answer some questions and also with yet another dilemma.

To answer a few questions, my daughter actually isn't sure what she wants to be but she wants to study law at university because she is interested in the subject. She has said she might like to either be a family solicitor or work in public relations.

Also she's not very keen on coursework, she prefers exams so a BTEC which is all coursework based would be hell for her. She doesn't mind if the workload is balanced between exams and coursework though.

Her GCSE's were English Literature, English Language (both A's), History and Biology (both B's). Her remaining seven were all D's. She needs 6 GCSE's A*-C to do A Levels so she's two short.

And now the dilemma. Yesterday we managed to get in touch with another college who said that it would be no problem for her to re-do some GCSE's this year and start A Levels next year. They reassured us that she wouldn't be too old and that they have people in their 20's doing A Levels at their college. So they've said we can go along to one of their open days next week.

However we have also had a phone call this morning from someone from the first college (head of sixth form, we didn't talk to her at the open day though). She said that if my daughter could get a statement from the school stating why she didn't do so well and what she could have achieved otherwise and if my daughter passes an interview and short test she will be allowed to start A Levels this year at that college instead.

So now we have no idea which is the best route.

Would doing A levels and some GCSE resits such as Maths be an option for this September with the statement from the school?

Accept the offer from the first college, then go and see the second next week, then decide.

But please make sure she gets GCSE Maths.

If your daughter is confident to resit for better grades, let her resit. Having those letters on that piece of paper will mean she won't have to answer questions about her health later on.

If her health problems are chronic then it's also fine for her to accept the offer of the college yesterday. Later on it means universities and employers will know what they can do for her and work realistically around her health problems.

The other thing is that she might prefer to stay with her year group. Being a year older than everyone in the class might not feel right for her later on.

I personally found A level a huge jump from GCSEs. As much as she'll want to get on a year consolidating & getting back to proper learning may be a good idea? Are there any teachers from her previous school that she trusts that will help her decide?
Definitely agree she needs to get GCSE maths at least.
Different situation but DH went back to do A level biology at night school prior to a career change. He underestimated just how tiring it would be. GCSEs might be a nice stepping stone for her but, & I don't know how to say this nicely, would she be in a class of people doing resits who are hoping to get a C? If she's wanting top grades that might be tough going.

OP College 2 sounds better - more organised and seems to know the score a bit more. Some colleges are all about the funding and sucess rates and will quite happily withdraw a student on the morning of an exam rather than risk them damaging their success rates. Other colleges are about the student and delivering the best outcome for each individual student and yes this may impact on the cold hard facts you can find on a comparison website but may well be a better option for many students.

BTECs are no longer all coursework - they now include controlled assignments (under exam conditions) so I wouldn't discount on that basis. But is sounds as if the original route of GCSEs/A Levels is open to her anyway so probably not relevant.

She seriously really needs to resist some GCSEs and get an A-C in maths especially.

Go with college 2.

Personally I would take the second route. Go straight to A Level but at the same time resit GCSE maths this year since its crucial to pretty much every career.

I hate to be harsh but if she actually took the other exams and got D's then this isn't great. Particularly since she got As in her English. If she couldn't take any or got poor results for all exams it looks like she was ill. If she got 2 As 2 Bs and then Ds it looks like she has a couple of strong subjects but the rest are weak.

I'm not saying its impossible (I'm a senior lawyer running a law firm and I got a D in one of my A Levels - but I took four so still had three top grades and this was more than 20 years ago when things were different). But if she wants to be a family solicitor then she will have a massive uphill struggle unless she can ace her A Levels and her degree. I know we wouldn't even look at her unless this was the case. There's simply no need when we have so many applicants with flawless academics who are therefore less of a risk for our (significant) financial investment in them.

Resist? Re-sit!

If she resits then she's stuck with the new grades if they're not great. If she goes straight to A Level then it shows the College thought she was good enough to go to A Level even with her initial grades. This will support her statement that she was ill.

But GCSE Maths is essential.

Good point Atticus, I can imagine that a law firm would appreciate the integrity of admitting the illness rather than finding inconsistencies.

If the illness is something that affects her differently from one day to the next then it will be fine on paper to do well in some exams and not in others.

Terrible how we all have to look good on paper these days.

Tbh having only 4 gcses, especially without maths, is going to be a hindrance whatever she wants to do in the future. I'd suggest going with college 2 especially if they will support her longer term. No harm in going to an open day and looking at all options though.