To want my usually lovely friend to stop harrassing me about Forever Living

[Pestopastaagain]

She has recently got involved with Forever Living. We used to be in touch every month or so via email, text or fb (We live opposite ends of the country) but since she has got involved with this it's every single day more or less. She sends chatty messages but always drops in 'Have you thought about it some more' 'They are really good products' etc. Another mutual friend told me she has also been emailing her the same thing, again and again and again. Mutual friend and I have both already told her we're not interested in becoming part of it but we wish her luck and hope it works out.

What has happened to our usually sane and lovely friend? It's impossible to have a conversation with her without Forever Living being mentioned repeatedly. It's like she has been taken over by a cult or something the way she keeps going on about it.

I looked into the company and it seems to be a MLM company. Some of the articles I have read make it seem like a very fine line between that and a pyramid scheme. A lot of people also saying they made no or very little money trying to sell inferior products at an inflated price.

She's not made any money yet but is playing a well off future down to them. Is she kidding herself, has anyone here been selling these products and made any money doing it?

This really does make people behave as if they are in a cult! I had one woman follow me along the road after I attended a local toddler group for the first time. She was really chatty and I was surprised that she was sooooo friendly so soon after meeting...then she mentioned the Aloe Vera products and how I could make a fortune etc I declined, she forced her card into my hand. I never went back.

Someone else I seemed to "click" with at an event became really friendly really quickly. Kept saying she wanted to drive 80 miles to come for coffee at mine, (?!) I eventually said ok. She came, we chatted...BAM! She also wanted to "change my life" with bloody Aloe Vera products.

These people have a fixed manic grin and wild eyes. Beware.

FWIW my Mum has actually been a stockist of the products for 20 years but uses none of the agressive sales techniques they have now nor recruits others to it either. She just sells a bit of handsoap and lipbalm job done. It is scary what people are like now.

Yes I have a friend like this. She says she can't get a regular job so does it because she thinks she will eventually make a lot of money from it. It really is a pyramid scheme. Yeah yeah, I know they claim otherwise. My friend is very taken in by it all and is constantly driving all over the place for meetings and seminars and other similar shit. She sells mainly at car boot sales and fetes, but she hasn't ever really don't anything than break even. It's all about the future and where her millions lie....

She did a similar thing with sex toys in the past. This kind of scheme takes a certain type of person. Persistent with little sense of reality and ever so slightly desperate sums it up for me.

I was at someone's house and they had aloe vera toothpaste! Yes, it waas gross. It's MLM and the products are shite. I agree with telling them you're allergic to it and ask them not to mention it again. If they don't stop, then stop communicating with them as it's terribly dull.

Urgh. I'm with you OP - sends people totally bonkers! Mind you it is one of those things I secretly love to hate!

It is a kind of brainwashing IMO. They end up totally believing in the products and believe that they are doing you a favour in roping you in.

It is Amway all over again. DPiL got hooked up with this. They went to meetings all over the country. Bored anyone within earshot rigid about the wonderfulness of the products. It became embarrassing and awkward to be around them as they were always trying to recruit.

Eventually I think they realised they were losing people and cut back then eventually stopped. Going to their house they still have lots of Amway products now so I guess they had built up quite a stock.

I know someone too that harps on about this! .......I'd never sign up to anything like this but I have just bought something from her website as I'm curious to see how good the products are even tho I know it's prob all crap

I don't think it's brainwashing or anything like that but they are very 'jazz hands, over enthusiastic, have a great day, cheesy smile' type people.

I went to a seminar last year after I did the clean nine. I lost 11lb but wS hungry for nine days. It's all very good in principle but the products are so expensive. They make30 per cent profit cash and an extra 5 per cent from the company on bonus day. My friend makes 1500 a month with it. It takes her ten hours a week. The woman that would have been my manager makes 10k a month. They get free holidays to amazing locations every year and large cash bonuses on 'success days' if they sell enough. That's why the products are so expensive.

The lip balm is beautiful!

McBear I've ordered the aloe Vera hand and soap wash for teenage acne.......what's the chances it'll leave my DD as smooth as a baby's bum!

I love the bullshit haters of MN!

Going back to the OP, I wonder if she is heavily targeting the people whom she has moved away from and doesn't see so much anymore, on the grounds that she can afford to lose you? If so, that sounds as though she's got a grain of self-awareness there, and doesn't want to "shit where she sleeps"... Or simply has already run through her local friends!

Did it cost you one million pounds wee?

I'm totally dubious about the way it's sold, but the Aloe Propolis cream is amazing!

My SIL got into it years ago, afaik it's a bit of extra pocket money for her and she's not at all hardcore about it. MIL is bit obsessed with the products but that just means she buys us lots of goodies as she tries to convert us from time to time!

I the products are decent but for the price I'd much rather go to boots and buy some nice range or maybe neals yard or something. The handwash/facewash in the pump bottle is good as a facewash though for teens, I used it at that age. I think the toiletries are decent but would never have the drinks. yuk.

Sorry everyone (this is a long reply, but it's something I feel passionate about), as someone whose family business is for a very reputable multi level marketing company, I have to say that unfortunately you are speaking from a position of ignorance.

We don't work for FL and I don't intend to say who we work for (or my husband, more specifically, but it's our business as a whole) as I don't come to MN to plug our business. The views expressed by the posters here are not that rare - however - multi level marketing is something completely different from pyramid schemes (which are illegal, by the way). Multi level marketing is a widely used method of compensation within various companies globally, it is thought by many economists to be the business model of the future as it is incredibly egalitarian in nature (anyone can do well in an MLM business) and cost efficient for the company itself. It is entirely legal, logical, highly regulated, and PROFITABLE. It is based on sales of tangible products, not signing up other people to do the work for you. Before anyone in an MLM business gets paid a penny of royalties or bonuses on other distributors in their downline, a whole host of stringent sales criteria has to be met by all parties involved. The so called 'passive income' of an MLM business is not easy to come by, but it can be completely life changing for people who stick with it.

As for the quality of the products, I can't speak for other companies, but what you will typically find is very high quality products because MLM companies can afford enormous research & development budgets (because independent distributors are effectively their sales force, freeing up enormous resources). Sometimes people say 'yes but all vitamin pills/shakes/whatever are the same, so why pay over the top for them' but that's a silly argument, that would be like saying all cars are the same, but no one could seriously claim that Vauxhall is the same as a Bentley and that it should cost the same, that it drives the same etc. Especially when it comes to health products, quality matters, hugely.

A lot of people who call MLM companies 'scam' are people who were looking for a"get rich quick scheme" and were then disappointed to find out that such a thing does not exist!!! Believe me I wish it did, but it doesn't, and MLM is certainly not it. It is not an easy industry to survive in, but if you find a way to thrive, then it gives you a measure of both financial freedom and lifestyle, that no other job I know of can offer.

It is all about working incredibly hard for a long time, and being ethical, professional and dedicated to your work.

It sounds like the problem here is that the lady in question is simply not acting professionally. No one wants to be harassed and harassment does not give any results, on the contrary, it makes people say 'it's a cult'. In our business, we would never harass anyone and in fact we make a point of only working with people (be it clients or distributors) who really want to work with us. It only makes sense. We have over 600 distributors in our downline and at any given time a minimum of 30 retail clients and I can promise you that not ONE of them ended up with us through harassment.

This lady possibly needs some better training, possibly she might be in the wrong job, it's hard to say. I don't know much about FL but they have been around for a long time so I'm assuming not all of their distributors can be doing such a poor job.

Well written Aleksandra ! They are so many companies that MNetters will be familiar and comfortable with that are MLM businesses-Usborne books, Phoenix trading, Kleeneze, Virgin Vie (as was), Body Shop, Avon, Tupperware, JMe at Home, Pampered Chef etc.

FL is a bit of an odd one as they are a massive company in over 100 countries but are marketing stuff that seems new and a bit exotic to many people. But they have been trading 40ish years. The products aren't cheap but they are very good quality. They also carry a 60day money back guarantee so if you don't think it has had any affect on you-all your money back.

MLM is also know as network marketing so distributors do just that-they network. There is no company advertising budget-no glossy magazine adverts or TV ads. Each person spreads the word about their own small business (with literature available to buy or download from the companies). The general pattern is to contact people you know and show them the products and the business and then eventually start with people you don't know. Either directly one to one or by having parties etc. People are trained to think a "No" is a "No not now" as opposed to a never so are encouraged to network with people again but it sounds like your friend is being a bit over-zealous.

The basis of MLM is that products must sell-that is how money is made. So a new person sells products, makes themselves some cash. But then they find more people who want to do it to, so they join the company in the original persons team usually with a minimum order (looks like £50 for FL after googling) or a special introductory offer. Then anything they order (and then sell) gives the initial person a small percentage bonus in recognition of their work in finding the person, helping and training them etc. This then is the same for everyone down the line-every new person is starting from the same playing field. If people buy £1000s to join a MLM then they have been given the wrong advice OR made a silly mistake-there are different financial reward levels in recognition of how much product you and your team sell and someone may think-I'll buy loads and sell it later so I climb the ladder quicker-then realise they haven't developed a retail base to cope with it all yet!

MLM isn't for everyone-you have to be committed and very self motivated. Often the people who make millions (and many people do!) have hit rock bottom previously and that gives them the drive to develop their business. You can't expect to walk into a salaried job and earn loads by doing little and it is the same for MLM. You also need to be a people person as it is all about communication and like ability.

I have non of the above qualities which is why I haven't made 3 different MLM businesses work! For example people I had talked to about the businesses joined later in someone else's team! But I still believe they are a fantastic opportunity for a normal person to get a huge break. And I have experience of FL products in both people and animals with fantastic results so they are not all to be poo pooed. Also when googling best to avoid forums etc and look at independent finance sites, sites listing the best MLM companies etc to get an unbiased view of the companies-nothing worse then someone who didn't try very hard and expected riches to just come to them saying it's a load of crap, it's a con.

So I would advise you say to your friend-thanks but I'm not interested in FL stuff at the moment-can we just carry on without it taking over our friendship? then when she quits her day job and is living the life of Riley and working when she chooses you might take a peep!

"very reputable multi level marketing company"

LOL.

That's why they keep being investigated for being a pyramid scheme is it?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26553715
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/wall-streets-6-billion-mystery/361624/
pyramidschemealert.org/a-european-court-rules-herbalife-is-an-illegal-pyramid-scheme/

It's a simple concept really, you sell overpriced drink powder to people, and persuade them that if they only sign up as a distributor they can access the 'wholesale' price.

And so it continues.

Slimfast:

www.boots.com/en/Slim-Fast-Vanilla-Flavour-Milkshake-Powder-438g_5057/ £3.97 on the shelf in Boots

Herbalife: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Herbalife-Formula-1-Shake-Nutritional-Healthy-Meal-550g-NEW-FREE-P-P-/291171018083 £22.50 on Fleabay, who knows how much from Herbalife (they won't tell you!)

Freckletoes:

Usborne - a normal publisher as well as a MLM
Phoenix trading - not a clue what this is
Kleeneeze - overpriced catalogue stuff
Virgin Vie - overpriced cosmetics sold by annoying people
Body Shop - primarily a retail business
Avon - see Virgin Vie
Tupperware - yeah, we aren't in the 70s any more, you can buy storage boxes in Poundland, we don't need a party to buy a box now.
JME at Home - I just googled this, fucking Jamie Oliver? Ugh.
Pampered Chef - more overpriced crap sold by annoying people.

Obviously not all equally bad, if you are just doing Usborne through a stall at a school fair then it's fine, or if it's a catalogue through my letterbox that I can bin and you don't have the cheek to ask for it back, then fine, but anyone holding parties to sell me shit can fuck right off. It's rude and moreover incredibly inefficient to try and exploit your friends for your MLM crap. Rather than sell me £100 worth of shite worth about £30, that you get £20 commission on, why don't I just give you the £20 and not buy the shite at all????

And the people who exploit those desperate for stable, paid employment by saying 'you can make £1,000s per month' and similar stuff, before proceeding to take desperately needed money off them to sign them up to a MLM scheme scam they don't understand, should be ashamed of themselves.

" My friend makes 1500 a month with it. It takes her ten hours a week. The woman that would have been my manager makes 10k a month. They get free holidays to amazing locations every year and large cash bonuses on 'success days' if they sell enough."

These are not representative though. There is a pyramid. Your friend (assuming she's telling the truth) is far more successful than average. Most people signing up to any MLM scheme will lose money. Only a small % make a proper income.

It's a sales job.

I am being plagued by two Arbonne sellers at the minute. I was going to buy an eye cream because the sample one of them gave me was quite nice. Until she told me the price! $77! ( about £40). I don't feckin think so, it's not made out of unicorn tears!

and promises like this "then when she quits her day job and is living the life of Riley and working when she chooses you might take a peep!"

are shameful as well.

Why don't you hear that from people getting a job at McDonalds? You've got a better chance of living the life of Riley if you work at McDonalds (and get promoted etc.) than from MLM. And at least they will pay you an hourly wage. You don't work for free to pay commission up the pyramid at McDonalds.

I don't know Forever Living but I do know Young Living Essential Oils. Yawn.

Would someone be willing to give a quick explanation of how pyramid differs from mlm?

There isn't a huge difference, in both a small % at the top cream off all the profit.

The distinguishing feature in legal terms is that if there is an actual retail market then it's not a pyramid.

So for example if you are selling Usborne books that's not a pyramid, because sales are likely to be to the general public.

Whereas with Herbalife, which is a monthly food alternative, users become distributors in order to get a discount on their own supply. So as such since there are few sales outside of the tree, and you can consider someone spending £50 a month on Herbalife (plus signup fees, etc.) at the bottom of the pyramid as having bought £20 worth of diet products, plus made a £30 pyramid payment.

The key is that since nearly all of the 'sales' comes from members of the business, it is a pyramid.

Whereas if you sell some overpriced kitchen tat for £20 to a member of the public and then pay £5 of that in commissions up the tree, then that is not a pyramid - the distributor's appetite for their own products is very limited, so that is merely MLM.

Yanbu.

I ended up being v rude to a friend who kept trying to recruit me/sell me stuff as I didn't want to lose the friendship but she is doing my head in.

If it looks like a pyramid scheme and sounds like a pyramid scheme and works like a pyramid scheme... Then they can call it whatever the chuff they like its still a blooming pyramid scheme

Of course the people working for it claim to be successful, its how they try and persuade people to join and sit below them in the pyramid making them money

Dh aunt boasts all the time on fb about how well she is doing but her parents are her main customers and they also pay for all her holidays etc and she still has to work in her 9-5 job

The products claim to be all natural but a quick glance at their ingredients shows they are full of the usual junk (parabens etc)