To just want to rant really...

[ICanHearYou]

So we went to legoland today, the children, the ex and me.

I paid for everything, he is too poor and fair enough, he had to pay a lot out when he moved out at the end of May and I understand that.

I know a lot of people will think I am a mug for taking him to Legoland with us but I don't fancy doing it on my own, who would stay with the baby while I went on rides with the boy for example?

Anyway so we all went, I paid for the diesel on the way up there, asked him to meet me at the garage but he couldn't 'walk that far' (it is about 2 mins walk from his house' and then complained that I had not got him a coffee when I picked him up, I rarely buy coffee from the garage now because I am watching my calories and frankly would rather eat food than drink a latte, but I was having a treat day so got myself one. When I told him that I was paying out a lot of money for the day anyway, he told me that I had 'free coffee cards' in my purse and should have used one of them. Well yes I do have a free coffee card in my purse but I use them when I have no money and I NEED a coffee, like on my way to a night shift or whatever.

We get to fleet, I bought some sweeties for the children, mostly to placate them for the rest of the long journey, I bought 2 krispy creme donuts and we had half each between the four of us.

We got to legoland, used tickets I had bought on a selling page on facebook and they wouldn't let us have a child go in free because they were an offer or something, so he says 'you can pay for DS1 on my card if you like but you'll have to pay me straight back' I paid on my own card and we went in. I bought lunch (£30 for the three of us and the baby ate for free) I bought us drinks in there, got the children a purple angry birds pig each and then drove back, asked him to come and put the children to bed because I have a really sore hip, exacerbated by lots of driving and wanted to put it up.

I checked my bank and have enough money for a bill coming out next week, he informed me that I get plenty in tax credits so 'shouldn't have to worry about money ever' and then tried to blag me into buying him a coffee at Fleet (I didn't buy myself one, no money left!) and then got huffy when I said I had no money.

Get back, he is huffy about the children, I asked him to warm up some pizza and do a salad for me and the kids (I have been driving and paying all day at this point) he is huffy about that but eats some for himself too. Then puts the kids to bed, starts complaining about how tired he is and then leaves (finally) but he didn't once;

Thank me for taking him out
Thank me for buying him food
Thank me for us having a nice day all together

and I feel a bit used and cheated really. was putting the kids to bed and feeding them with food I'd bought really such a big deal after I'd really splashed out on us as a family? He was acting like I was being really unreasonable to ask him to do those things.

I think he was really unreasonable not to say thank you to me!

Draw a line under it and next time take a friend. It doesn't sound like you're at point where you can quite be friends yet (does one ever?). He sounded mean but at the same time he could think that you asking him to walk and meet you two minutes away, not get him a coffee etc is a bit arsey. Sounds like you are still at the sniping at each other phase. Go with a friend and their kids and you'll have more fun.

I think it's really admirable of you to go to all the trouble and expense of dealing with your ex for your children's sake.
I don't have any advice or suggestions but I do think your ex was acting incredibly badly, like a spoilt and petulant child (and even this is frankly an insult to well-behaved children). Really sorry you had to put up with it-you sound like a lovely person, and at least your children had a good day out. Heres to hoping your ex pulls himself together quickly and realises that basic manners do, in fact, cost nothing.

I can't find it now (frustratingly) but amongst the literature I've got about contact arrangements and maintenance there is some stuff about separation and contact time. The general thrust of it is that it can be confusing for children and therefore unsettling to spend time with both parents together when separation is relatively new. Children see the two parents together and it sets up the idea and the hope that the relationship may not be over, will daddy be coming back home etc. the general advice after vast amounts of study is that children should spend time with the NRP away from the RP, there should be a distinction between time with mummy and time with daddy. This has been shown to be most beneficial to the child, and the easiest for them to cope with emotionally.

Kids are funny things. Quite often at times like this you can't tell what's going on in their heads, what they really think and feel about mummy and daddy splitting up. A lot of that is because their emotions are far more complex than their ability to describe their emotions.

I have a 3yo and a 16 mo. They spend EOW with their dad. He takes them on adventures and they come home bursting to tell me all about it. I take them on adventures too and we sit and talk about all the things we've done at bedtime. My children's lives have been broadened. They get two lots of adventures, they get to meet my friends and family and their dad's friends and family. They have never once said they miss doing things all together despite expressing opinions about other aspects of the separation. They've accepted this way of doing things and they are very happy children.

It's only as the months have passed that the feelings have settled down for me and only with distance from my ex that I've realised how I feel, what I want from life. I've become a better mum and a happier person because of that space to get my head together. This is all still early days for you but I think you need to get that distance between you and ex. You need to build a co parenting relationship, and that needs to be one that is removed from you and him as a couple or as exes. The only way that will happen is with time and distance.

Fwiw I do day trips as a single parent. I either enlist a friend or do things I know I can do on my own. The kids have never once looked at my friends and said they wish daddy was here instead because they love my friends, and because when they see daddy he has friends with him - instead of having 2 adults in their lives regularly they have around 8 as both me and ex have several close friends who help out with day trips and who genuinely love the DC. They will notice the difference. Ex and I can get on and have a giggle but there are still undercurrents and he does annoy the fuck out of me. When I'm with friends and the kids we have an amazing time, DD often says to me "mummy, youre laughing til you explode today".

My advice to you would be to step back for a bit. Spend the next few months just you and the DCs. Cancel anymore joint day trips with ex and just let ypur self come to terms with everything that's happened. Focus on building a new future for you and the DCs, make a list of things you want to do with them, special mummy time things, memories you can make. It's not about you and him being a family anymore. Your kids will see it as two families and this is actually important for helping them understand when you both meet someone else. Just focus on your little family; yes it hurts that it wasn't supposed to be like this, yes you want to be able to both be there for the kids but it's not possible now. It hurting doesn't make it the wrong decision or mean that because you find it hard that the DCs do too. Distinction between time with mummy and time with daddy is best for THEM and that's what you need to fix in your mind.

Good luck with everything, it does get easier, I promise.

that basic manners do, in fact, cost nothing

this is absolutely the whole point! You're absolutely right Marius

Shadow that sounds ideal but unfortunately neither of us are in a position where separate contact would work, along with not driving and having no money, X is living in a room in a shared house which is not suitable for contact with the children. I work at weekends in a cab office so I need him to do childcare at those times (every Saturday til 10pm, every Sunday night and every other Friday night) and this will be the case for some time, I am just about to start volunteering with the probation service and I will need a years experience doing that before I can properly apply for PSO jobs.

So we are reliant on each other for childcare at the moment, obviously the ideal will be he will have his own place and he will have the children from Saturday evenings until Monday mornings every week and an extra day the other weekend, but then I won't get any weekend time with them which seems a bit unfair on me really. When I am working properly, I will be able to look at it again and see about having set times for contact.

I have friends whose parents divorced very early on but stayed close, in fact he rented a room off her for years. It hasn't affected them negatively, I think that if it can be cohesive and pleasant then the best thing for a child is to see their parents getting on. They are so young that they aren't going to know any different to mummy and daddy living separately so I don't think they will pine for anything different. Would be very different for an older child I am sure, but they are very little.

that basic manners do, in fact, cost nothing

this is absolutely the whole point! You're absolutely right Marius

Shadow that sounds ideal but unfortunately neither of us are in a position where separate contact would work, along with not driving and having no money, X is living in a room in a shared house which is not suitable for contact with the children. I work at weekends in a cab office so I need him to do childcare at those times (every Saturday til 10pm, every Sunday night and every other Friday night) and this will be the case for some time, I am just about to start volunteering with the probation service and I will need a years experience doing that before I can properly apply for PSO jobs.

So we are reliant on each other for childcare at the moment, obviously the ideal will be he will have his own place and he will have the children from Saturday evenings until Monday mornings every week and an extra day the other weekend, but then I won't get any weekend time with them which seems a bit unfair on me really. When I am working properly, I will be able to look at it again and see about having set times for contact.

I have friends whose parents divorced very early on but stayed close, in fact he rented a room off her for years. It hasn't affected them negatively, I think that if it can be cohesive and pleasant then the best thing for a child is to see their parents getting on. They are so young that they aren't going to know any different to mummy and daddy living separately so I don't think they will pine for anything different. Would be very different for an older child I am sure, but they are very little.

that basic manners do, in fact, cost nothing

this is absolutely the whole point! You're absolutely right Marius

Shadow that sounds ideal but unfortunately neither of us are in a position where separate contact would work, along with not driving and having no money, X is living in a room in a shared house which is not suitable for contact with the children. I work at weekends in a cab office so I need him to do childcare at those times (every Saturday til 10pm, every Sunday night and every other Friday night) and this will be the case for some time, I am just about to start volunteering with the probation service and I will need a years experience doing that before I can properly apply for PSO jobs.

So we are reliant on each other for childcare at the moment, obviously the ideal will be he will have his own place and he will have the children from Saturday evenings until Monday mornings every week and an extra day the other weekend, but then I won't get any weekend time with them which seems a bit unfair on me really. When I am working properly, I will be able to look at it again and see about having set times for contact.

I have friends whose parents divorced very early on but stayed close, in fact he rented a room off her for years. It hasn't affected them negatively, I think that if it can be cohesive and pleasant then the best thing for a child is to see their parents getting on. They are so young that they aren't going to know any different to mummy and daddy living separately so I don't think they will pine for anything different. Would be very different for an older child I am sure, but they are very little.

OP - it's ironic given your user name that you're batting away good advice at such a rate. I know you're hurting but shadow's points are really good ones. And I think it was frankly rude to describe some of my post as bollocks. I'm actually (annoyingly) quite upset by that. I'm in the same boat as you with this experience and I was genuinely trying to help.

Shadow's not saying never to be in the same airspace as XP - just saying don't seek out joint contact, enough with the happy family day trips and let yourself off the hook of trying to keep up the appearance of a united front to the children, who are too young to notice anyway.

I was just explaining to Shadow why that isn't possible at the moment, I don't understand how that has come across as me being harsh to her, or attacking her when you are unable to see how bloody mean it was of Lweji to jump on me and pick apart things that weren't even said.

I didn't say your post was bollocks, I said that (in this case) being 'cruel to be kind' is bollocks. Please don't mis-quote me.

Shadow I am sorry if you feel like my post was in anyway dismissive of yours, I was simply trying to discuss my own situation in light of it, which obviously is the wrong thing to do.

OP I was in exactly the same situation this time last year at Alton Towers.

To deal with my anger I just completely focused on what a great job I had done in offering the DC a united day out with both parents .
It gave them great memories .
Well done

You have obviously kept the DC at the forefront of your mind which is great. Days out like that are so healing for them - just focus on that

Sorry shadow I disagree - my DC have benefitted enormously from me and their dad offering a parent unit.

Visibly seeing us as a parenting unit has kept them emotionally well.

Thanks Nanny, I am really hoping it all works out.

I agree OP for younger DC - it does help. I am so proud and relieved at how I managed contact.
Yes it was painful for me - but as always DC come first , it did prevent a lot of anxiety and helped their wellbeing and happiness .

Underneath everything lweji does have a point, you have stated several times that you couldn't have gone without him so in a sense he was doing you a favour in making it possible for you to go and treat the dc, doesn't excuse treating you badly but you do need to rethink things a bit, you weren't treating him you were treating the dc him having a good day was just a side effect of the dc enjoying themselves. Focus on the fact that you did this for the dc and not for your ex and it will make it easier. Been there done that and escaped the other end.

Wow, shadows post was great. A lot of good advice there I think. That really does sound like the ideal.

Op, wether you decide to follow any of the vast amounts of advice and suggestions you've been given is obviously up to you. It's never a bad thing to see things from a different viewpoint.
Nobody can criticise you, after all, all you are doing is trying to put your Dcs first. I hope it works out how want it to and exp can start pulling his weight without you trying to force it.

Good luck

I would love to be in a position where I can do what shadow does, I really do but at the moment that just isn't possible.

Sounds great though!

Ironically it is irrelevant whether Lweji had a point, because her rudeness and her being judgemental about my finances negated anything positive she could have said.

Just as it is irrelevant whether I 'needed' him there or not, the fact is he was rude and dismissive of me and I have every right to be pissed off about that.

Oh for God's sake, give the OP a break. Sounds like she's doing her very best to make the transition (children's father no longer living with the family but still in the kids' lives) as painless as possible. She posted initially to have a good old rant, and good for her. Yet the whole thread, in some sections, has sort of got onto a 'how many angels dance on the head of a pin' riff, with poor OP and her ex being examined, filleted, criticised and scorched! OK, he's impecunious, sounds a right old moaning, complaining type, lacks good manners and he's not grateful for the efforts his long suffering ex makes ... but he's the kids' father, no doubt they love him and OP honestly is doing her best to include him in their lives - and as for giving the kids wonderful memories, good for her. Many mother, even, dare I say it, some MNers, want nothing more than to cut the fathers of their children out of their lives - yes, something with good reason, but not always.

OP wanted a good old moan, get it off her chest. I'm sure she wasn't expecting to be told Dump The Bastard Forever.