To not want to visit DPs home town for my own personal safety?

[Eastie77]

To set the scene, DP is from a very small port town in Southern Europe. He has told me before that there are few foreigners there and virtually no non-white residents. The few non-white people in the town tend to be either illegal immigrants en route to other countries or sex workers. There has been a lot of tension in the town over the years due to the presence of said immigrants and several reports attacks on them (house firebombed, a driver attempting to knock down someone of 'foreign' appearance)

The attacks made the news in the UK and I am very concerned as I am not white and am very reluctant to visit this place due to this situation. DP wants us all to go (we have a 1 year old daughter) to visit his brother. The rest of his family live in other towns in his home country and I am prepared to visit those towns as they are larger, cosmopolitan areas. His parents have passed away so his only relative in the town is his brother. I have suggested his brother can take a train to his sisters house (they in the North of the country in the city I am happy to visit) so we can meet them all there. We are planning to visit the sisters anyway. He has rejected this idea because his brother has a health problem, an issue with his eyes, and apparently does not like to travel. Plus he wants to show me where he grew up and wants to introduce DD to his friends. I understand all of this but I really do not want to go to this town. I do not want to be stared at or worse by hostile people.

To make matters worse there is a LOT of criminality in the area and it is nominally 'controlled' by a criminal/Don figure (you can guess the country). He has to visit this man, a friend of his late father, and has said I should go with him. He is blase about the whole safety issue saying that since it is immigrants who are targeted I am not in danger. I feel this is quite an ignorant attitude. I am affected by seeing people targeted and hounded regardless of whether or not I am 'saved' from this scenario by virtue of the fact that I am not an immigrant. In any case, I suspect I will be targeted anyway.

Today I found him looking up flights etc. I repeated that I do not feel comfortable going to the town and will book tickets with DD to his sisters place in North and wait for him there. It will be a shame if we do not see his brother as I have spoken to him on the phone and he is so keen to meet his niece but I do not understand why he cannot take the the train - he works full time and can see clearly with glasses - so suspect DP is using this as an excuse. DP states I am being ridiculous.

Just to be clear: I have no issue visiting areas which have few or no non-white residents, I do this all the time as I love traveling around the UK / Europe and many far flung places. My specific issue is the criminality and the fact that I feel I will be personally targeted in THIS particular town.

AIBU??

I think it's sad you're denying your dp the opportunity to show you where he grew up and to introduce his dd to the area. There is usually a massive gap between outside and internal perceptions of an area. I don't understand why you're relying on the former whilst dismissing the latter.

I've travelled widely and have often been the only white female in an area considered 'dangerous'. I also grew up in an area that outsiders perceived in a certain way. I've never felt unsafe or been targeted.

This isn't just a question about your principles; it's about how much you respect your dp and his experience. Frankly I'd be pretty insulted if my dp felt he could judge the area I grew up in better than I could, and I'd feel annoyed if he wanted to cherry-pick which of my family he met based on whether he felt where they lived was acceptable. It's not as simple as trying to make your BIL travel. It's about your dp's history. It's about the area and events that shaped him growing up, and you can't just pretend they don't exist because you find them unsavoury.

YANBU and your DH is being even more unreasonable in expecting you to meet the man in question.

If you don't feel safe/comfortable, then don't go.

A lot of the comments on this thread fly in the face of usual MN advice to look after yourself/trust your instincts.

The coast between Bari and Brindisi is just gorgeous. So many lovely things to see in the area, it seems such a shame you won't consider going there. It's a very popular tourist area and is also heaving with British expats who buy in that area because of Ryanair serving both airports.

It sounds like you are totally set against this and I do hope you allow your DP to take your DD on her own one day as it's an amazing beach holiday destination.

Oh, and everyone goes to church there!

I do find it double standards that you feel Jamaica okay to visit whilst guarded by lovable rogue Yardies, but not your DP's home and wrinkly cheek kissing old mafia Don.

It was me that mentioned having a Yardie bodyguard, and it was when H last visited which was 34 years ago. It is precisely what he remembers of that trip and what he found out afterwards that means we will never visit. Its hardly his fault that his mother knew this man is it? Lovable rogue is about as far as you can get from the truth, and the exclamation mark was to show amazement, surprise, shock rather than "Oh isnt it hilarious!"

it's about how much you respect your dp and his experience

That respect cuts both ways, APlaceOnTheCouch. The OP's DH should respect the OP's very real knowledge and experience of racism.

YABU if you would have been white and posted this stating that the place had too many black people you would have been lambasted
missing the point spectacularly there

Archery but the OP doesn't have knowledge and experience of racism in the place concerned. If the OP was saying she was basing this on her personal experience of the area then I wouldn't consider her UR at all.

Tricky one. I'm sure your fears are genuinely held, but I honestly get the feeling that you've over-analysed it all and exaggerated the risk in your own mind. The fact is that nowhere is immune from crime. You'll be with him too, a 'local', and I suspect you'd dress pretty respectably and be quite unlikely to attract unwanted attention.

No, but then her DH doesn't either, APlace, as he's white. She shouldn't be pushed into something she clearly does not want.

I didn't say the OP should be pushed into something but I think it's pretty offensive to imply her DH doesn't know the area he grew up in or that he would put his dw and dc at risk .

I also think I would be trying to make the visit work rather than looking for obstacles because I think family history and environment have a massive impact on a person and I would want to see where my dp grew up. I think it gives you an unrivalled opportunity to understand certain aspects of their personality and experiences.

APlaceOnTheCouch - I don't think he would knowingly put us at risk and I don't pretend to know the area better than him. But he was the one who told me there were no black people in the town apart from sex workers and illegal immigrants and about the levels of tension. I didn't set out with any preconceived ideas.

I suppose the problem is that he downplays the issue of racism in general. He thinks racist abuse is comparable with someone getting verbally abused because they are overweight or have red hair - to him it is all part of the same kind of discrimination and should just be ignored so that the abuser doesn't feel empowered/get attention. I know a lot of people share this sentiment but I don't.

Eastie sorry my comment about it being offensive to imply your DH didn't know the area was not aimed at you but at Archery implying he could not understand because he is white.

I don't think abuse or discrimination should be ignored. I just prefer to take every opportunity to explain and challenge rather than try to avoid such situations.

Neither do I, Eastie.

APlace, it isn't about OP's DH not knowing the area he grew up in, it's him not having experienced the area he grew up in while being Black. This isn't a criticism of him at all, it's just people do experience exactly the same events and places differently due to who they are, the baggage they have, and - most importantly - how the people around them at these new events/places perceive them. The DH can't say how the OP and her DD will experience the same places he knows and loves, because he is, quite literally, not in their skins.

The DH can't say how the OP and her DD will experience the same places he knows and loves

He can't say how another white male of the same age would experience those places either. It's impossible to live someone else's experiences.

I'm not saying that race doesn't make a difference. I'm not saying that gender doesn't make a difference. I'm simply saying how I would approach it (which is, of course, based on my own experiences and my own attitudes to risk and family history).

I think it's pretty offensive to imply her DH doesn't know the area he grew up in or that he would put his dw and dc at risk

I dont think it is offensive at all. H and I have lived in our town all of our lives. I always thought of it as being a very inclusive non racist place, but I was a white mc girl who lived (I see now) a sheltered life.

H is black and his experience of our town is very different. Since we got together I too have seen that side of things and it shocked me. You really can live somewhere your whole life and not see what other people see.

And, if the racism in that town is so ingrained perhaps he doesnt see the racism towards the immigrants and sex workers as being "that bad" compared to if it happened to the OP. What he is forgetting is that racists dont care how successful you are (or not), they just use whatever weapon they can. In fact being successful can infuriate racists more.

Ok Eastie I may have been too harsh before, but really, truly for the vast majority in this world skin-colour is irrelevant. Your DH might just be the first in his family to marry and have dc with someone with a different skin colour. He might be a little worried because to be the first and a ground-breaker can be scary because you don't know how it will turn out. Maybe he described his fears in the wrong way to you.

My first advice was stay home, but now I say go. Be yourself, be a mother and be the woman your DH loves. Of the many nationalities I have come across (and yes guilty of generalizing here) the Italians love children and are all about families; I'm sure they will welcome you with open arms and hug you.

Have you tried to really explain how dh refusal to take your concerns seriously is making you feel?