To not want to visit DPs home town for my own personal safety?

[Eastie77]

To set the scene, DP is from a very small port town in Southern Europe. He has told me before that there are few foreigners there and virtually no non-white residents. The few non-white people in the town tend to be either illegal immigrants en route to other countries or sex workers. There has been a lot of tension in the town over the years due to the presence of said immigrants and several reports attacks on them (house firebombed, a driver attempting to knock down someone of 'foreign' appearance)

The attacks made the news in the UK and I am very concerned as I am not white and am very reluctant to visit this place due to this situation. DP wants us all to go (we have a 1 year old daughter) to visit his brother. The rest of his family live in other towns in his home country and I am prepared to visit those towns as they are larger, cosmopolitan areas. His parents have passed away so his only relative in the town is his brother. I have suggested his brother can take a train to his sisters house (they in the North of the country in the city I am happy to visit) so we can meet them all there. We are planning to visit the sisters anyway. He has rejected this idea because his brother has a health problem, an issue with his eyes, and apparently does not like to travel. Plus he wants to show me where he grew up and wants to introduce DD to his friends. I understand all of this but I really do not want to go to this town. I do not want to be stared at or worse by hostile people.

To make matters worse there is a LOT of criminality in the area and it is nominally 'controlled' by a criminal/Don figure (you can guess the country). He has to visit this man, a friend of his late father, and has said I should go with him. He is blase about the whole safety issue saying that since it is immigrants who are targeted I am not in danger. I feel this is quite an ignorant attitude. I am affected by seeing people targeted and hounded regardless of whether or not I am 'saved' from this scenario by virtue of the fact that I am not an immigrant. In any case, I suspect I will be targeted anyway.

Today I found him looking up flights etc. I repeated that I do not feel comfortable going to the town and will book tickets with DD to his sisters place in North and wait for him there. It will be a shame if we do not see his brother as I have spoken to him on the phone and he is so keen to meet his niece but I do not understand why he cannot take the the train - he works full time and can see clearly with glasses - so suspect DP is using this as an excuse. DP states I am being ridiculous.

Just to be clear: I have no issue visiting areas which have few or no non-white residents, I do this all the time as I love traveling around the UK / Europe and many far flung places. My specific issue is the criminality and the fact that I feel I will be personally targeted in THIS particular town.

AIBU??

I get you, OP, I can guess to within 2 cities which one you mean (I think), and yes, while parts of Puglia are very pretty and well- touristed, there are other places that are grim- poor, chaotic and pretty dangerous.

But I still think you'd be pleasantly surprised if you went. Immigrants are forced to live very vulnerable lives- often sleeping rough or working in the street, often in dangerous areas, so they're easy targets for hate crime. I imagine you'd be staying in a nice residential area, under the protection of a family, probably taken on day trips to some nice pretty places.

I doubt you'd meet much overt racism, although could well hear some "Bloody blacks, oh we don't mean you dear, you're different" kind of comments .

But don't forget, even in S. Italy, the majority of people aren't racist, and will give you a warm welcome as the sister in law of a local.

Also, I don't think S. Italy is any more racist than the North- ever heard of the Lega Lombarda/ Lega Nord? It's just better dressed and more under wraps up there- so in a way more difficult to challenge.

Actually, I might be wrong about knowing which town it is- I thought Bari or Brindisi, but on second thoughts I think you might mean somewhere smaller...in which case not as dangerous .

Sorry to use a buzz word.... but I think this can be hard for privileged groups to get.
I think YADNBU for not wanting to go. It is beyond personal safety (for the reasons you have explained) (although that is a worry too). I don't think you should be expected to spend your own time, on your own holiday which is supposed to be fun, going somewhere where you know people like you are not wanted (by some) to the point of violence. It is a horrible feeling and you should not have to do this to please others. Certainly not to please people who supposedly love you.

i am white by the way but I think this is outrageous. I have been told by black friends that they don't want to go to, for instance, certain bars because they are racist (the bars, not the friends) (which I have never noticed because I am white). the answer is not "Oh no you'll be fine because you;re with me today" or "but I want you to go there to introduce you to someone, so your feelings don't matter" or "I am sure the danger is very slight. [subtext: might you be imagining it?]" The only remotely polite thing to say is: "oh my god I had no idea, of course we can't go there, where do you want to go?"

mumminio - I have looked up the organisation DP's father friend is a member of.

There are on circumstances on this earth that will result in me and DD visiting this man. Members of the organisation (or a related group) murdered a woman and her young son a few months ago. Even by the standards of organized crime in Italy this was shocking. I could at a stretch put up with stares and comments during a day visit. Visiting a dangerous criminal, not so much.

If DP was willing to compromise and have us visit for a day and then take the train North I might consider it. Unfortunately he wants to stay for a longer period of time, visit assorted friends and pay respects to his dad's friend.

I absolutely wouldn't go anywhere that I would need to have my dh with me just to feel safe

If dh wants to go, fine fair enough. At no point should you or your Dd be put at risk just so your dh can take a trip down memory lane ffs

I read about that case, it was horrible. How can your partner stand to visit someone involved in that kind of crime, or ask you to? YANBU!

Topaz25 - Apparently the crime was committed by a 'rogue element' of the organisation and has nothing to do with his dad's friend. In DP's eyes this makes everything ok and I should feel fine meeting and greeting this man

you clearly cant punctuate HAHAHAHA! You owe me a new computer as I just spat my tea all over mine! That's the funniest thing I've read in ages.

It sounds like your partner has a very idealistic view of the area he grew up in and his 'family friends' and can't see things from your perspective. It's not just the physical risk, it's understandable that you would feel uncomfortable visiting a criminal.

You have to go with what you feel comfortable with and your DH needs to respect that.

DH is black and is very intrepid and has travelled widely, but wont touch some places (parts of Russia/Eastern Europe particularly) with a bargepole. He despises Italy (I love it, but respect his feelings) and parts of France and Spain, as he has experienced hostility and racism.

To be honest, if you don't feel comfortable and safe, your DH needs to respect that.

you clearly cant punctuate HAHAHAHA! You owe me a new computer as I just spat my tea all over mine! That's the funniest thing I've read in ages.

Read further dear!

Meh. I don't know. When I visit my DH's home country, I am often the only white person I see around, especially if we visit villages in the south of his country. Sometimes there is violence against foreigners, a healthy local organized crime element too, but the two aren't necessarily connected. We take precautions of course (I never travel alone at night) but I think your sense of a paranoia is probably a bit over the top. Crime against illegal immigrants (who are competing for jobs etc) is very different from foreign partners of locals getting targeted. Not that it makes either right but the motivations are very different. You might even be warmly welcomed - my grandfather has a bit of a rant about illegal immigration occasionally but thinks the world of DH.

What bogey, the hastily-concocted response to clearly making yourself look like an arse? Give it up and laugh at yourself 'dear'.

:o

If your H is 'connected' then that probably makes you quite safe, even in some racist six-fingered backwater. But I appreciate that you wouldn't want to go there or associate with self-mythologizing murderous needledicks in the first place. YANBU for not wanting to visit. Hope your H sees sense.

This is one of the most UR things I've ever read. You just stay at home or somewhere that you feel 'safe'. Your DH should take his child to his home country to show DD off for her beauty and because he is so naturally proud of her. He can make excuses for your non-appearance, say illness or something. The last thing anyone needs is some uptight arse like you around, imagining she understands completely how an alien culture works, to the extent of deciding who is or is not criminal. Criminals, danger, prisons exist everywhere and thankfully more lovely people, beautiful places and families wishing they didn't live apart are more frequent. Stay home with your fears and give your dd and her df the chance to unite with their blood and their heritage.

YANBU at all.

You have no obligation to go (or to take DD, who I presume also isn't white - is that right?) to anywhere you don't feel safe, or to meet anyone you don't want to. I can understand your DH wanting to take you and DD to his home town, but he doesn't get to override your feelings on this. If he's white, then he won't understand, however lovely he is, because he won't have experienced it.

The practicalities make no difference, either. His brother can travel if he's so keen to see you. You have already gone most of the distance to him, by going to your SILs.

It also doesn't make a difference whether other people think your fears are justified or not. It sounds like other people you know in the area won't be able to make an accurate assessment on this anyway, because they won't have experienced it, being white. Nobody has the right to tell you to your concerns aren't important.

You also aren't obliged, as someone suggested upthread, to go in order to be the "exception", or to be some sort of advance guard leading to the decrease of racism in this town. Not your job, not your obligation.

You are entirely justified in sticking to your current plans on this. If you change your mind once you get to your SILs, then you can always go onto this place. if you don't change your mind, then have a lovely time with your SIL!

I do find it double standards that you feel Jamaica okay to visit whilst guarded by lovable rogue Yardies, but not your DP's home and wrinkly cheek kissing old mafia Don.

Stubborn, what planet are you on - Bari and Brindisi dangerous?! Old town Bari perhaps to tourists of any ethnicity due to muggers.

OP, sorry but YABU. Although you only respond to those agreeing with you and have not told us what town, I am assuming it's Taranto as I found a report about the mother/son murder. It wasn't a simple case of innocent bystanders being targeted. The mother was sat alongside her mafia-involved partner in the car and sadly for her son, he was sat on her lap. It shocked Italy yes, but sadly the mother was involved in the mafia (her previous husband was also killed in a suspected mafia/drugs feud). Clearly the mother chose to mix in dangerous company and involve her children. Obviously very sad and the son in particular was totally innocent.

Mafia is everywhere in Italy and never involves tourists. Whilst YANBU to not want to pay respects to your DP' friend, there must be some way of avoiding this or if you have to, do it briefly say after a church mass or something so just a handshake. YABU to want to deny your partner the chance to show his DD off just because you think people will stare at you. Taranto hosts major summer festivals which attract loads of tourists and you cannot be the only non-white person to have visited. There will be poorer pockets of the city to avoid, just as there are in any major city, but your DP will surely keep you and DD away from these?

Why not go this once with a positive attitude and no preconceptions. If it's as awful as you think, don't visit again. At least you've shown willing.

Btw, Nichi Vendola (president of Puglia) is a left wing, gay activist. That's pretty inclusive in my eyes.

Archery, if the SIL lives in the north (depends where) then that is a very long journey for the BIL to make. Milan would be 8 hours on the train from Bari. A lot of the older generation don't like to travel. Most of DH's Italian relatives did not make our wedding in London as they simply don't/won't travel. To accommodate them we went to them afterwards. Family and respect is really important in Italy and if you have an Italian partner I think you need to accept that.

If the journey is a long one for the brother to make, it's also a long one for the OP and her daughter to make. She is travelling over there to visit her SIL, and her SIL still counts as family.

All these people scoffing at the OP's fears - whether you think they are valid or not, they clearly still exist. You all think she should just put up with being fearful on what should be a lovely family holiday in order to go to a place she doesn't want to visit and meet people she absolutely doesn't want to meet?

OP, you do what you want to do. I suspect a lot of the people commenting have never been in your situation.

Oriundo: Sorry thought I already answered. I was trying not to be too specific so as not to out myself although I've given out a lot of info so probably doesn't matter. The areas in question are Brindisi where DP was born but he has friends and a family member in Tarranto and wants to spend time there as well as a couple of other areas near to Bari. DP has himself told me about the dangers of these areas and the specific towns he plans to visit.

I know the Mafia is widespread and doesn’t usually involve tourists. But I’d rather not meet with a member of an organized criminal gang. I don’t want to have anything to do with this man and I very much doubt we could arrange to meet him after Mass as something tells me he’s not a church-goer..

Unfortunately he was a long-standing friend of DPs late father and DP very much sees him as almost part of his family and wants to introduce DD to him and have him know all about us. I do not feel comforted by the fact that DP (and myself and DD by association) would be under this man’s protection. Yes perhaps I am being paranoid but as mentioned the innocent child and his mother were murdered purely by being associated to someone who had connections. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time is all it takes.

The sisters live in Milan and one other sister lives in Bologna. I appreciate it is a a long train journey to Milan but his brother is a young adult with time on his hands (doesn’t start work until September) so I don’t understand why he can’t take the train to his sister’s house. I DO want DD to know the family particularly as his parents are both dead so I’d like her to know her aunts, uncles and cousins. I don’t think it is unreasonable for me to want to do this in an environment where I don’t feel uncomfortable, threatened or deal with hostility.

The sisters have said they look forward to me & DD visiting. Interestingly they have not pushed for us to meet in their home town. I plan to fly to Milan and wait for DP there. He is fuming about this.

I have said I would consider a day trip if we did not have to visit his dad’s friend.

Anyway I have DDs passport so he won't be booking any tickets for her!

Wallybanters: think you are a little confused re. Jamaica. I clearly stated that the area my mothers family is from is safe and has no connection with Yardies. Her family live in the middle of the countryside in a very quiet area and we would not require protection from ‘lovable rogue yardies.’

I would never use that terminology by the way as they are not lovable at all and are a scourge on the island.

I wouldn't rely on one off news articles. 1 or a few attacks are not a pattern, and they may be sensationalized here. Also, he is probably right; immigrants and visitors are usually treated differently.

I'd probably look into it more. See if there is a travel advisory on the UK home office website. Also, are you the "wrong kind" of non-white? i.e. people are likely looking out for a particular kind of illegal immigrant and you may just not be it.

Thing is, DP only has himself to blame really. He chose to entertain you with bloodcurdling stories about his home town....no surprise you don't want to go now!