AIBU to think about NOT starting dd at school because of toilet issues and shyness

[Itsjustmeagain]

dd is 3 now but will be 4 in August and is due to start reception in September. She is our 4th child the older three have started school with no problems and are happy at the school (they are 9,7 and 5 - dd3 is in reception with the same teacher now).

dd4 has been a total nightmare with toilet training, she is generally ok at home but cant cope outside the house at all. She is currently at nursery and wets herself 5 + times a day - yet at home she will be dry for the whole day. This has been the same at two different nuseries (it was so bad and her anxiety so high at the firs nursery we moved her as we thought there must be something majorly wrong there).

We went for an hour induction at her new school, I stayed the current class was there and so her sister was there - she knew people she wsnt alone. She wouldn't leave my side, she has been wetting herself even at home the last week since that day.

I am totally at my wits end with it - I have taken her to the doctor who said that she has no infection or anything that would be making her unable to use the toilet and tbh she is find at home when she isnt stressed - I know she will have weeks of good behaviour and using the toilet no problem over the summer since I will be at home with her.

I am now a sahm, partly because she was struggling so much at nursery and it was just so stressful for everyone.

AIBU to think about not actually starting her at school this year, most people I speak to in real life say "she will have to grow out of it" or "she needs to get used to it" but I just dont feel I can send her into a classroom when she will literally spend all day crying and wetting herself. Especially when at home she is a happy, smiling and confident 3 year old.

AIBU because everyone I speak to seems to think I am!

should have said obviously I would home educate not just ignore schooling altogether.

Have you tried meeting with the school about it? They may be able to help you out, perhaps a gradual introduction and see how she goes?

Or delay until after Christmas and reassess?

Is there a mental health program for kids you can take her to? If she's really that anxious maybe CBT and/or beta blockers would be helpful for her?

If she doesn't start school in September or January, when do you propose to start her, or are you planning to home educate her for her whole primary education?

As you have accepted her space, and she is an August birthday, you don't have to start her at school until the summer term.

Are you aware that you have the right to request that she starts in September next year in Reception?

YANBU

Does the school have any provisions for long term settling in? e.g. going for just half days or a couple of days a week? I mean for longer than the usual couple of weeks in reception - she doesn't need to go at all until she is 5 but she could miss out on a lot of "fun stuff" important stuff as well as the chance to socialise with her classmates during the first year.

That is, unless you are happy with homeschooling.

I think the school starting age FWIW is crazy. My DD2 is 4th September, had she been born 5 days earlier she would be going to school a whole year sooner!

sirzy - yes I have been to the school but the best plan they can come up with is to remind her to use the toilet in the day - which I know wont work, at nursery at the moment they can take her to the toilet as many times as they like she will still have accidents.
I am not criticising the school - they are actually being great about it, I cant think of any better plans than they have.

Squiggly - I dont know my gp just just kept saying she is only 3, and wouldn't really be drawn on anything else apart from infections etc.

Based on my experience with DD I would say YANBU.

She was really shy when she was young. I used to take her to playgroups thinking she would get used to it, but she would never let me leave her side. She eventually grew out of it around 3yo.

I know this doesn't really help you, but just wanted to reassure you that I think you're doing what's right for your DD. (Obviously I could be very wrong)

I you manage to find a solution.

I think you should speak to the school's SENCO. Not because I think your DD has special needs but because the SENCO will know more about this kind of issue and may be able to advise you better.

On the whole I think keeping SUmmer borns back a year is a good thing and having an anxious summer born DD myself, who is now 9 I would have in retrospect kept her out a year.

It does no harm at all and they soon fit in.

Yanbu, 4 is still so young.

I think that sending her when she will almost certainly have a miserable traumatic time could damage her perception of school.

A year is a long time, she will almost definitely be in a very different place with the toilet training in a year.

Little - I dont know tbh, dh and I have just been talking about "until she is more able to cope" but I have no idea what I would do if she wasnt able to cope at 7/8/9 +.

I am not against teaching her at home if that is what is best for her, I am just not sure if it is actually best for her in the long term or not. I did talk to the school about starting later but it seemed t be start in reception now or start year 1.

Celia, they start them part time for a week then full time, they have agreed to "consider" extra part time weeks though if she is having major problems, but they were clear that this was not really expected - they did seem more open to this after talking to the nursery though.

I think its really hard for me to imagine since I am not there to deal with it and at home she is an average everyday child not this difficult, miserable non potty trained nightmare she seems to turn into when shes out!

I'd keep her back a year and not bother "home educating" her myself.

I think you should delay it a year, she is probably the youngest in the class and only just turned 4, seems just not emotionally ready for school. A year is a long time in development terms.

Can you leave her in pre school for the year, I think they go up to 5

Yanbu. You know that she is happier and less anxious when she is being cared for by you. The argument for sending her off to be looked after by somebody else when you are willing and able to do it yourself would have to be pretty fecking strong. I can't think of one.

Home-ed and enjoy it. She's lucky to have you.

Have you considered asking the doctor for a referral to camhs, child and adolescence mental health service. They should be able to give you advice about how to best support your daughter with this issue.

Yes I'd leave it for another year. Speak to the school about keeping her place back for a year. She's obviously not ready yet. She's still only three and she's having to think about big school already. This time next year she'll probably be completely different and she'll be more emotionally mature and able to keep up with her peers.

There is Department of Education guidance regarding summer borns which says that LEAs can allow summer born children to start a year "behind". Google it, easily found. However I think. It depends on the LEA as to their approach as each case must be judged individually. Mine required specialist reports (GP, ed psychologist) and set their threshold high. I decided not to go through the process and only time will tell if I did the right thing (DS1, end August bday, v shy & quiet).

My LEA also said to me that year 1 gets full with reception children so be prepared if you take her out and they don't allow her to stay behind a year that you may not get the school you want.

If you are lucky enough to be a SAHM why not give it say, 6 weeks and if it's too much just withdraw her and try again in the summer term or year 1.

Good luck, I find myself wishing we lived in a more civilised country where children are allowed to be children for a bit longer.

mostly - I haven't asked about this but when I spoke to the doctor he just kept saying she is young she will grow out of it (it didnt help that since I was there she was happily wandering around chatting to everyone, not exactly a good example of an anxious child!).

gutz - I think there would be room in the school in year one as neither reception or year one are anywhere near full, there are only 17 in my dds class this year, I think there is a shortage of children in our area . I am going in to the school in a week so I might try and talk to them about options if she doesn't settle after a few weeks. I also have a meeting with her current nursery teacher before she leaves to just try and get a really good view of what goes on when shes there and if she has any suggestions etc.

As a teacher this is the main concern we have when parents make this request is that you, as the parent, are aware that your child will completely miss out on their Reception Year (as they will join Year 1 when they finally attend rather than be always be a yr behind in all their schooling). But it seems that you already know that?

Which brings me to my next point...

It is absolutely not a problem to delay attendance and in the case of very young children can sometimes be the better option. As long as...
a) the home environment is nurturing, fulfilling and enriching.
b) throughout the 'missed' year the child has experience of institutionalised play based learning (i.e. a good nursery with similar routines to a classroom).
c) you try to instill the very basics in education that she will have experienced in her Reception Year (the minimum being an understanding of phonics and number - which again, can be met through a good nursery and some extra help from you).

At the end of the day you know your child best so only you can make the decision. Ask yourself if you feel like you can provide her with the above and whether she'll come out the other side happier and more confident - it might help you to give yourself the answer you need.

(Wanted to add - just please don't let the toileting issue be your main deciding factor. The school will be fully able to help her overcome this in time.)

Yanbu. I'd keep her out as long as necessary and would take her out of nursery too.

Give it a go............ my ds 2 was very very very similar to your situation. But with the addition of not being able to talk either. I was pooping myself about the school start. But it was a breeze... Once out of the 'baby' nursery environment he learnt to adapt SO quickly. Yes there were a few accidents and a few teary days but on the whole it was so much easier than we had ever thought.

I don't know where you are but here you don't have to start until 5yrs... But you start at your age. So if we had kept ds back a year he would have had to miss reception and go straight ino year 1 which we decided was far more disadvantageous.

We went with the ' let's see how it goes' attitude knowing that we would have pulled him out had it been a disaster.

Just to reassure he is now a 'normal' 10yr old... Bit quieter than some. But he caught up quite quickly.

Hope it goes well for you.

Would your health visitor be more useful than your gp? Doctors tend to look for a physical reason for everything in my experience.

It sounds like your daughter would find school very stressful so I would seriously consider home ed if you can.

In Scotland the youngest a child can be when they start school is 4.5. The birthday cut off is end of Feb for starting in August and if the child's birthday is December, January or February then the parents have the right to keep them in pre-school for another year.
It's a much better set up, six months makes such a big difference at this age.

If you are able I would definitely keep her back a year and start reception next September.
My daughter has toilet issues too. We reckon she has an over active bladder (doc isn't interested as she's so young). She is 5 and starts school in August when she'll be nearly 5.5. Her bladder control has improved considerably in the past year. If she'd have been a February birthday I would definitely have held her back, I don't reckon the school would have coped with her visiting the loo at least once an hour and every 10 mins after drinking at break and lunch.

I would discuss with the school nurse. IME they are much more experienced with this stuff than GPs. My DD is under enuresis clinic. Toiletting issues are WAY more common than most people think and our school has taken them in its stride.

That said she is still 3! I would explore if she could do mornings only for an extended period, or something. Starting at the beginning of YR will be the gentlest introduction to school she can get, when it's nearly all play. If you can delay her for a year and get her into YR next year that sounds like a great idea, but if not I would rather have her in for short days than go,straight into Y1. (Our LEA will hold places for those who defer, but do check on yours.)