To think that Brownies should teach DD (8) to be resourceful and a bit more robust, not just give up?

[DrSeuss]

I should say up front that I have been a Guide leader and a Cub leader. Both jobs are unpaid, hard work and generally thankless! I am grateful to anyone who takes on this role, they are brilliant!
Today was meant to be day one of DD's overnight at the local Brownie house. Packed lunch supplied by parents, tea was spag Bol, presumably just the pata to cook and the sauce to warm. Cake for pud. Breakfast was sausage sandwiches, lunch sandwiches, crisps etc.

Got a call this morning. Power cut at Brownie house so no trip.
No requests for assistance, just gave up.

If asked, we could have cooked the pasta, warmed the sauce and delivered. It is a short drive, I could wrap it in blankets and be there in no time. I could have done the same with the sausages tomorrow. (I have a toddler, I'll be up!). It's light till at least 10. They have torches. It's not cold. The power could come on any time. I would personally use lack of power as a teaching point. The Sunday prayer service practically writes itself. I know other parents would help. One is in the Army and has served two tours in Afghanistan so a power cut really doesn't phase him. But no one asked, they just cancelled. We never had a chance to contribute. The kids never had a go at improvising or being resourceful or finding out about going without in a pretty safe way.

A few weeks ago, a trip got cancelled in case it rained. It didn't rain. If it had, there were places to go and they could all wear waterproofs.

AIBU to think that my daughter is not being encouraged to toughen up?(she is inclined to whinge if even a bit cold/warm/ inconvenienced.) we could have helped fix it but no one le us try. The kids could have gone and learned a little something about the real world.

its probably more about health and safety and insurance. what if you had heated up the food and the kids got sick? what if a child fell going to the toilet when there was no light etc.

i agree its good to be resourceful but i would think it is out of their hands.

It's a health and safety issue. If you have been a Guide leader you would know this

You cannot possibly take young kids on an overnight stay with zero power.

x post mommy!

DH agrees we and others would have pitched in but thinks the leaders have become risk averse due to being harangued by too many parents because precious little Honoria got rained on.

I'm with you but unfortunately not all the parents would be - folk love to complain about fuck all and this is a teeny, tiny amount of fuck

I used to run a Brownie pack. I probably would have cancelled too. If a child slipped on a wet floor in the middle of the night going to the loo in the dark, the paperwork would be horrendous.

There are also procedures to be followed for cooking the food - I would have been getting the girls to prepare the bolognaise from scratch - in terms of hygiene etc which would not be controlled by allowing a parent to bring the food warmed up.

I was thinking H&S reasons too, although I do agree with you OP. My DD is a Brownie as well and I would have hoped for the same.

Would the power cut have affected safety equipment like the fire alarm system? That would be a reason to cancel.

It's a tough one to call. You don't want to mess parents around, and many are not as accommodating as you and the other parent you mention. Many of ours tie themselves in knots over very trivial things (the girls are fine!), let alone a reasonable logistical concern.

We don't cancel things lightly, but two years ago, constant torrential downpours forced us to cancel and rearrange most of our outdoor activities for that summer.

I've taken Cubs to stay two nights under canvas with no power at all. No one died.

If there is no power their will be no working fire alarm and possibly no hot water for hygienic hand washing before eating.

We've had to close the school for this - you arent allowed to have a group of children in a building with no functioning fire alarm system.

Brownies have girls under 8, they have 7yos. OP may not know this if she does Cubs (age 8+). Big difference. The insurance and ratio rules are different for 7yos. Our Brown Owl used to rant a bit about it and all the restrictions imposed on her. Big reason they couldn't go camping because under 8s are too expensive to insure.

Also, The risk assessments will all have been done as well for one environment and then everything changed with no power.

H&S - no brainer!

Your leader is a wet lettuce for cancelling a trip in case of rain though.

You have to risk plan for all trips and activities, so if you haven't planned for no power you can't run the trip.

If you're an ex-leader you should know this.

Have her join Cubs. Having said that, I'd be surprised if my Brown Owl friend would have given in so easily. She's made of sterner stuff.

I understand the H&S thing (kind of), but there are usually workarounds to problems like this - it sounds as if they threw in the towel almost immediately.

YANBU.

It's a health and safety issue.

You cannot possibly take young kids on an overnight stay with zero power.

No. You simply MUST have electricity to go camping otherwise it is dangerous.

There are no such things as torches and there it is impossible to source alternative methods of cooking equipment within the Guiding Association, even at short notice.

Sorry thats bollocks and I'm with the OP.

There are ways in which to take additional problems into account and STILL adhere to health and safety guidelines.

Its just the leaders don't want to try and find solutions as its easier to do things the way they always do them, rather than try and think outside the box and find solutions to problems.

DH is a Scout Leader. He is fed up of coming across leaders who are so set in their ways and don't use their initiative. He's moving troops - in part because of a result of this mentality.

The troop he is moving to, rather ironically, has been without a base for several months due to it needing renovation, so they have had to do all their meetings out and about, and had to rely on leaders with a little bit of imagination to keep the troop running week to week whatever the weather.

I don't think that because the kids at Brownies are slightly younger that this makes much difference. I think if you are going to take on the responsibility of a group like this, then part of that includes encouraging initiative and 'being prepared' because thats the very ethos of the organisation.

And on that flipside, DH isn't bothered by the rain for events. We live in the UK and the weather is often changeable. We should be able to adapt for most conditions (weather warnings aside).

But what he has been bothered by has been other leaders allowing children to participate in long hikes, in totally inappropriate clothing for the weather. He's then had to do much to try and ensure that kids haven't got into trouble as a result (on at least two occasions I know he's lent a spare coat in adverse conditions because the children haven't brought one despite it being essential for the conditions). The point here, is you teach the kids to respect the weather and you teach them (AND THE PARENTS) how important it is to be prepared in this way.

Cancelling events doesn't help improve awareness of the weather and how you cope with it. Every year there are a hell of a lot of emergency calls made for walkers who don't think about the weather and go out to areas completely unprepared and then end up getting into trouble, so it is an important thing to teach. If Scouts and Guides don't do this as part of their programme, who else does?

I'm with you OP - ridiculous.
All the H&S bollocks is ridiculous - you not heard of torches ?

I'm glad my girls went to Beavers / Cubs!

Indeed, I remember one year when my dh took Scouts away for Christmas Camp - they came to the rescue of a local hotel and fed their guests when there was a power cut

From what the op said they weren't "tent" camping. It was in a "brownie house" which I am guessing is a building.

Fire regs state you can't have kids in a building over a certain size with no working fire alarm. On this they had no choice.

The cancelling the other trip cause of rain - crap and totally unnecessary unless she knew that she was going to get loads of kids turning up in silly sandles with no waterproofs.

Yes have been there - kids sent to school for a trip to the farm park with no lunch, no drink, no coat and wearing open toed crappy party sandles.
Then the complaints when the shoes are ruined, kids are cold and you've fed them a cheese sarnie (from your own lunchbox).

I think it might be an insurance thing, they changed the licenses you need to take girls overnight last year and the rules you have to follow to organise an overnight now are ridiculous, so it might not have been the leaders choice at all, using torches on a camp is completely different to a hall with no electricity.

The brownie house we use for PH would be the one to cancel and it's usually something to do with the fire alarm not being connected due to no power and therefore the fire brigade have said in the past that we couldn't stay.

And warming up bolognaise sauce I'd be cooking from scratch not warming up.

I can understand why they cancelled. I am a Guide leader and regularly run camps. I have no electricity but that is fine because I know I am going to have no electricity so things like how we will keep food at the right temperature, lighting, cooking etc are all carefully planned for.

If it was me, I probably would have run the sleepover but then I have my years of camping experience to fall back on and help me find solutions - if it was at my normal hut I would have all my camping equipment available to me to use, and the girls would all know the layout of the hut. In an unfamiliar place, without my equipment I would cancel.

All it takes is one child to get ill from food that was not stored correctly, or cooked sufficiently or a child to fall down some steps that they couldn't see because it was too dark. Sadly, this is the way of the world these days and people are worried about getting sued if something happened and it could have been prevented (i.e. by cancelling).

I have cancelled a trip due to rain before, but it was a trip walking in an area with lots of fords and the rain had been excessive for days - it would have been dangerous to continue. I can't think of another reason to cancel a trip due to rain though, especially if everyone had appropriate gear.

they could have scrapped the spag bol and had something else?

I'm with you op.....

The leaders will have had no choice. The cancellation probably came from the venue.

Even if not the trip has to be okayed by several layers of admin. Risk assessments will have been completed based on the facilities on offer. This is why it is fine on camp it is not the fact there is no electricity it is that circumstances have changed. It takes weeks of paper work to get the go ahead for a trip, it would not be possible to do it all again in the time frame even if the fire alarm issue (the ultimate problem) didn't veto it completely.

How about a little sympathy for the leaders who will have spent weeks dealing with admin and probably every evening this fortnight preparing diaries and chore charts and planners (seen as essential by the powers that be) and activities and shopping for food, and who will now be gutted at disappointing the girls and facing reams of paper work without any reward (happy faces of the girls)?

Personally I would have had the same thoughts as you about the fun and the opportunity to learn resourcefulness but policy would have taken decision out of my hands.

Without knowing any mitigating circumstances the rain thing sounds rubbish though. I am forever telling mine they are not wicked witches and won't melt on contact with water.

If it is an event being held under canvas it has been risk assessed as such.

This was an event being held indoors, a last minute loss of power for an unknown period of time makes things more complicated - are things like alarms/fire alarms mains connected? are there stairs in the building which would be unlit and therefore dangerous? etc. A new risk assessment would need to be done, I presume permission would need to be sought from some sort of management/senior volunteer?

I have been away with a group of 14-18 year olds when we had a power cut and it was a PITA, with younger children it would have been even harder to manage things so I don't blame them for cancelling when they knew in advance it was an issue