To think that Brownies should teach DD (8) to be resourceful and a bit more robust, not just give up?

[DrSeuss]

I should say up front that I have been a Guide leader and a Cub leader. Both jobs are unpaid, hard work and generally thankless! I am grateful to anyone who takes on this role, they are brilliant!
Today was meant to be day one of DD's overnight at the local Brownie house. Packed lunch supplied by parents, tea was spag Bol, presumably just the pata to cook and the sauce to warm. Cake for pud. Breakfast was sausage sandwiches, lunch sandwiches, crisps etc.

Got a call this morning. Power cut at Brownie house so no trip.
No requests for assistance, just gave up.

If asked, we could have cooked the pasta, warmed the sauce and delivered. It is a short drive, I could wrap it in blankets and be there in no time. I could have done the same with the sausages tomorrow. (I have a toddler, I'll be up!). It's light till at least 10. They have torches. It's not cold. The power could come on any time. I would personally use lack of power as a teaching point. The Sunday prayer service practically writes itself. I know other parents would help. One is in the Army and has served two tours in Afghanistan so a power cut really doesn't phase him. But no one asked, they just cancelled. We never had a chance to contribute. The kids never had a go at improvising or being resourceful or finding out about going without in a pretty safe way.

A few weeks ago, a trip got cancelled in case it rained. It didn't rain. If it had, there were places to go and they could all wear waterproofs.

AIBU to think that my daughter is not being encouraged to toughen up?(she is inclined to whinge if even a bit cold/warm/ inconvenienced.) we could have helped fix it but no one le us try. The kids could have gone and learned a little something about the real world.

AIBU to think that my daughter is not being encouraged to toughen up?(she is inclined to whinge if even a bit cold/warm/ inconvenienced.)

AND multiply that by 10 others being the same, hardly makes for an enjoyable weekend for anyone!

Is it have a go at Brownies night ? Obvious why they cancelled. A child injuring themselves during the night in the dark, would lead to all sorts of health and safety issues.

Our brownie leader won't even take our pack away. She's too afraid she won't be able to cope.
In 3 years they haven't even been camping.

or maybe poor she hasn't got the qualifications to do it.

YABU. I'm an ex Brownie leader, and resigned because a number of the parents were an utter ballache. The girls were adorable.

As others have pointed out, Brownies tend to 'camp' at buildings, and there are various regs which apply. It's not their job to toughen up your precious and risk the other girls because it suits you.

If you want to toughen up your DD I suggest you take her camping yourself.

If no power also means no water pump or sewage pump , and in a remote location this may be the case, then no , no cooking, eating or over fighting at the location should go ahead.

Power cut means - as already pointed out

No fire alarm
Probably no light in the toilets
No hot water, yes you can wash your hands in cold water but is an 8 year old going to do that every time they go to the toilet?
Depending on the building the fire doors might automatically close and they are fairly heavy for a child to open to go to the toilet
Possibly no flushing toilet
Possibly no phone and no where to charge a mobile
Do you have a food Hygiene certificate? How were you going to check the temperature of the food before serving?

The risk assessment will also be invalid

My dd camps with us and is tough enough thank you.
The issue is for example, the 100th birthday sleepover celebration at the millennium stadium last weekend. The brownies did not understand why they couldn't go.
If they were part of a different pack they would have gone.
I do understand there are rules, a few
parents with crb checks offered to help. We can't.
It's ridiculous but other packs manage!

If you are a volunteer leader it isn't worth the risk.
If anything went wrong the Guide insurance wouldn't cover you because the risk assessment wasn't valid.
Sad, but some parents would complain. A lot of the 'kill joy' things come about because parents will complain or might sue.

It's all very well these people who whine about Health and safety gone mad, but if it's your neck (and possibly family home) on the line if you get sued, then you take a slightly different view point!

Brownies are quite small 7 year olds as well as 8 year old. I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving my dd who is part of a pack of over 20 with three people in the dark without electricity.

Older age children, Guide age, should be more resourceful, but 7 year olds need a lot more supervision with things like cooking safely and barbeques and don't have the older ones in Guides to show them how.

Having said that, I am annoyed with Guides at the moment for exactly that lack of resourcefulness in relation to a situation with one of my children, this is going to sound awful but I do wonder why some of the Brownie/Guide leaders do this in their pack as they don't appear to like children and do a lot of sighing and standing around saying rude things about the parents (I know as I've heard them). I have contemplated moving them but the children seem oblivious and love attending so they are staying. It is odd though. They are also not very friendly to parent helpers which again doesn't fit with what I read about on MN about how they are desperate for people to help out.

Poorbuthappy - perhaps you don't realise the hours of preparation that go into running a Brownie pack. The training and paperwork that are required even for an overnight stay are ridiculous.

Perhaps the leader isn't able or doesn't want to give up more of her free time to do it. Perhaps she would need annual leave from work to go away? Any guider can take the pack holiday qualification though - why not volunteer and then lead the camp yourself?

AIBU to think that my daughter is not being encouraged to toughen up?(she is inclined to whinge if even a bit cold/warm/ inconvenienced.)

Then pack up the car and go camping yourself for the night. No? Happy have someone else do the hard work, but not prepared to put yourself out in order to teach your child the thinks you thinks she needs? Thought so.

We offered. And were told that we can't help.
Also apparently if they go away the leaders are not allowed to sleep in the same room as the brownies.

Yet other packs manage it. Not quite sure why our pack is so different.
But I suppose that's the answer. Find a different pack.

You need to have the leadership qualification before you can do the holiday licence, or at least you did when I was still a leader. Its hours of work, not just rocking up on the day.

I used to get badgered to take my pack away for a week like the other nearby group. I only got the bare minimum annual leave, and the parents weren't happy at all that I wasn't prepared to surrender a quarter of it to take their little darlings away.

The answer would be start another pack. Most areas have huge waiting lists.

I have my camping licence. It is correct that anyone who helps must be registered with Girlguiding, and for overnight events with children anyone over 16 must be DBS checked. It is also correct that girls and adults are not allowed to sleep in the same room - there must be some kind of partition.

poorbuthappy - as voluntary leaders we have to decide what events we have to take our girls to. Some events do not require a licence holder to attend, so we have a rota among our leaders. Other events do require a licence holder - for these I have to decide what events I take the girls to as I am the only one who has the licence. It means they miss out on some things. If any parent wishes to complain about that, they are more than welcome to join and do their leadership qualification and camp licence!

This month alone I am giving up a whole week and every weekend to do things for the girls. I don't mind as I am a teacher so my work is winding down and I have the holidays to look forward to. For my other leaders, they don't have that luxury so are less inclined to give up as much time.

Also apparently if they go away the leaders are not allowed to sleep in the same room as the brownies

And you can't see why a child and an unrelated adult shouldn't sleep in the same room?

Several posters on the thread have answered why the trip had to be cancelled OP, are you going acknowledge that you are being unreasonable?

Oh how I love a good Guider bashing thread.

I have given up three Saturdays in a row now for Girl Guiding. I'd love to add up all the extra hours in the evenings also used up on planning activities an paper work in order to provide fun and safe activities for other people's children. And you claim to be an ex-Guider too OP, really? I don't believe you, surely you know how much work goes into planning an overnighter? The risk assessments, the qualifications needed, the endless reams of paperwork?

You think we are risk averse? Of COURSE we are risk averse. Jesus wept. You have any idea what happens when a child does get injured even while doing a safe, planned out and risk assessed activity? You think a volunteer wants to put themselves in a position of experiencing the consequences of what might happen if a child was injured whilst doing something that hadn't been planned, prepared and most importantly got written consent for by all the parents involved.
Oh and you know those consent forms. A volunteer has prepare those, print them out, distribute them and collect them ALL back in before the activity happens. But you would remember that wouldn't you, being an ex Guider, the joy of chasing un returned consent forms.

You want your dd to toughen up, do it your bloody self. Brownie trip cancelled, did you leap into action and to an spontaneous camp in your back garden?

If you need your daughter to toughen up, isn't that your job?

I'm with you op

If you'd been cAmping they have been no electricity. Build a fire, toast marshmallows. A tea of back up biscuits and sweets wouldn't have killed them.

If you were prepared up being up some food then they would have been fine.

No wonder people can't last five mins without acces to a hair dryer or tv.

What about learning to work together to overcome problems. Learning to adapt plans. Learning to use what you have around you?

It's very tough of you to post an anonymous moan on an parenting forum isn't it OP. Really tough. Oh how I hope you've shared this particular life skill with your daughter. Whinging on the internet

But then I've been on residential trips and guide camps and lived at college for two years. Peeing in the dark became a life skill :o

And if you woke teachers up by turning on lights how could you finish your sleeping bag races? :o

Actually, I found an activity centre with an open day and a climbing wall.

I hearby change the title of this thread. It is now called, " am I being unreasonable to feel sad that the HSE, combined with precious, over protective, litiginous parents, have made leaders so worried about being sued that they can't do anything spontaneous, not because they don't want to but because it just isn't worth the risk to themselves if anything goes wrong?". Not the leaders' fault, the fault of parents who won't let any risks be taken with their precious darlings who now have zero life skills.
A friend's niece had no idea how to take a train to her university interviews. Not a clue how to plan a route, change trains and get there by herself. Was actually scared to try. Aged 17. Presumably, she was so used to everything being done for her and everything being planned and safe she just couldn't cope. A bit of fire lighting, camping and so in her earlier years could only have helped.

I am grateful to leaders, I just wish they were not being strangled by rules and over protective parents.

My mum once got told off by teachers. We were on a residential trip, think pond dipping, wildlife spotting all that kind of thing right up my street we got wet, we got muddy, and we were near a pond

What was the thing that worried the teachers?

Well parents were all asked to write to us presumably so people wouldn't feel home sick or miss their parents too much. The teachers however didn't pass on my letter as my mother had included some joke about renting out my room. :o

I thought it was hilarious and laughed when I was told about that. :o