To think that Brownies should teach DD (8) to be resourceful and a bit more robust, not just give up?

[DrSeuss]

I should say up front that I have been a Guide leader and a Cub leader. Both jobs are unpaid, hard work and generally thankless! I am grateful to anyone who takes on this role, they are brilliant!
Today was meant to be day one of DD's overnight at the local Brownie house. Packed lunch supplied by parents, tea was spag Bol, presumably just the pata to cook and the sauce to warm. Cake for pud. Breakfast was sausage sandwiches, lunch sandwiches, crisps etc.

Got a call this morning. Power cut at Brownie house so no trip.
No requests for assistance, just gave up.

If asked, we could have cooked the pasta, warmed the sauce and delivered. It is a short drive, I could wrap it in blankets and be there in no time. I could have done the same with the sausages tomorrow. (I have a toddler, I'll be up!). It's light till at least 10. They have torches. It's not cold. The power could come on any time. I would personally use lack of power as a teaching point. The Sunday prayer service practically writes itself. I know other parents would help. One is in the Army and has served two tours in Afghanistan so a power cut really doesn't phase him. But no one asked, they just cancelled. We never had a chance to contribute. The kids never had a go at improvising or being resourceful or finding out about going without in a pretty safe way.

A few weeks ago, a trip got cancelled in case it rained. It didn't rain. If it had, there were places to go and they could all wear waterproofs.

AIBU to think that my daughter is not being encouraged to toughen up?(she is inclined to whinge if even a bit cold/warm/ inconvenienced.) we could have helped fix it but no one le us try. The kids could have gone and learned a little something about the real world.

Apparently they thought it would upset me

I think what I really feel about the situation is that I would have been fine with a call saying, no power, who wants to go anyway, any volunteers to do a hot food run. My answers would have been, never mind, DD still wants to go, I'll do the food.

The leaders should have been permitted to try. They should not have to be too scared to adapt plans or take a calculated risk. Parents need to trust that leaders are not idiots, can think things through and decide how to improvise. Why has society allowed them to have their hands tied? It does neither them nor the kids any good.

OP, having looked after Brownies in a church hall setting I can tell you that a lot of parents treat the volunteers like idiots, whatever the activity. Damned if you do and all that...

In my book, you either decide to leave the leaders in loco parentis or you don't. Don't even get me started on sun cream! God forbid that someone should touch a child's arms and face to apply something that will help stop them getting cancer!

All a fine for the child care aspect. Happy to send kids off with anyone for a break. But god forbid they need telling off or require a cuddle :o

Wrt the fire alarm issue, would battery powered alarms suffice?

Obviously this would have necessitated a trip to B&Q and it would have had to have been before 20:00 or whenever closing time is, but even so...

I have adored the nursery teacher at my kids' school since I was talking to her on DS's first day and a child came up, crying. She hoisted the child onto her hip and continued to chat while holding them.

I'm a teacher just back from an overnight residential.

Some things you can do independently as a parent (eg. camp anywhere legal & risk assess on a common sense basis) which if done as part of an organised group require official risk assessments, which are then invalidated if anything material (like no power/lighting/hot water/alarm system) changes.

This will in turn have buggered up their liability cover.

Nothing to stop you having a camp out for DD & her mates in your back garden though.

Adapting plans doesn't work when something has changed so much though, events need risk assessing and that takes time.

What you deem an easy thing to do is often in reality of planning an event a nightmare. For just a small overnight trip it can take weeks of planning/paperwork/phone calls etc for it to happen.

Fair enough, Sirzy.

My son goes away a lot, with school, cadets and scouts as well as PGL. Not that he's trying to get away from me or anything

I trust adults to make the best call. On the one hand it still seems like the Brownie leader threw in the towel too early, but on the other their hands are tied I guess.

What would happen if the power failed at the hotel on a school ski trip to Austria? Does the company running the trip bear the risk?

well, then you deal with the situation that you have, as you would a mass outbreak of D&V or an avalanche .

It's things materially changing prior to departure that causes the risk assessment to be invalid & thereby makes it unfeasible to carry on with the projected trip. Doesn't matter so much where the problem occurs as when.

In addition. Mant Guiding holiday homes use bunk beds and I believe Emergency lighting can be something that fails after 8 hours. Would you be happy for DD to try and get down a bunk bed ladder in the middle of the night? Or would the girls have to share beds? Put mattresses on the floor where someone could fall over them? Ask half the girls not to attend? What about Flossie who's on medication that needs to be kept refrigerated - oh well - she can obviously miss out this time.

As others have said - the logistics of organising a Brownie Holiday are rigorous (especially if it's being assessed), and I don't blame the OPs DDs leader for cancelling. If the weekend had gone ahead, and one of the girls had gone down with food poisoning (most Brownie Holidays include cooking from scratch) or even worse, a fire had occurred, then the consequences could have been tragic. The Risk Assessment (possibly originally written up to a year in advance) would no longer be valid, and dependant on the Leaders job - she probably would not have the time to get it re-written and then approved by her Commissioner and (if need be) Pack Holiday adviser.

re Battery powered smoke alarms - I believe heat detectors are recommended for kitchens and at my County's Holiday Home the nearest B&Q is at least 40 minutes away (much much worse during rush hour). Plus then we'd need to clear it with the committee that we could put them up...

If things happen when you are away you have to deal with them as best as you can, its a nightmare but its the only choice. If you know about it beforehand though then the decision can be made not to go if that is deemed the safest option to minimise the risk.

As I said earlier in the thread I have been away (in the UK) with a group of older children when we had a power cut and it was a PITA but we coped, with younger children it would have been a nightmare especially if it went on overnight. Its not circumstances I would chose to start a trip with.

As a guider I agree it is sad BUT I have also had parents who get appalled when we do anything that might involve them using their own intuition to keep safe. I run guides though not brownies. I would suspect it would be the level of parental complaints about their little darling needing a torch to find the loo (or similar) that put them off. Dealing with parents is why many leaders stop.

It also depends why there was no power. If (say) there were dodgy electrics and the entire house is shut due to workmen in, then there isn't really a backup plan.
It seems very odd to cancel just because of a random powercut, when it might be back on again soon. I suspect the house has been declared not safe.

I hearby change the title of this thread. It is now called, " am I being unreasonable to feel sad that the HSE, combined with precious, over protective, litiginous parents, have made leaders so worried about being sued that they can't do anything spontaneous, not because they don't want to but because it just isn't worth the risk to themselves if anything goes wrong?". Not the leaders' fault, the fault of parents who won't let any risks be taken with their precious darlings who now have zero life skills.

In which case no, YANBU.

It's ridiculous but other packs manage!

I took my brownie unit to a 100th Celebration sleepover. Only 5 came, but it meant I gave up Friday to prepare for the sleepover as I needed to rest to be able to cope. Then on the Saturday when I eventually got home, I went to bed and slept for 16 hours. Most of my family time was taken up by me being away and then recovering.

Other guiders had to take holidays from work because they work at the weekend. It's not always easy to get holidays and give up your holidays for guiding.

My friend moaned about her dd's unit not going with us, but you can't force people to do overnights as for some people it's not doable with their own personal circumstances.

I also don't have my going away licence yet. The course was cancelled and I feel for me to deliver a high quality adventure needs me to do the course first and then do my tested weekend. That takes time.