to sing harmonies in toddler music sessions?

[PrincessPotsie]

Am I turning into one of those annoying mums? I always remember a v annoying dad doing sit ups during 'Row Row Row Your Boat' at a playgroup I once went to. He definitely was BU...

" he will grow up to be someone who thinks it is socially acceptable to harmonise at toddler music groups if I don't make him toe the line teach him any different."

I don't see that it follows he will definitely, on reaching adulthood and having children of his own, harmonise at their toddler groups in turn.

When does it not become ok? In my opinion, in scenarios such as the OP.

before havign to squash it all down if/when they have children, before they pass on their knowledge and enjoyment.

I don't think anyone has said people shouldn't pass on their musical knowledge and enjoyment to their children.

oxygenna, you are tying yourself in knots trying not to answer perfectly straighforward questions.

hibiscus - no, but everyone (virutally) is saying that that knowledge shouldnt be dispalyed in public, and enjoyment ignored in favour of following the crowd.

I find it odd.

I had no choice (quite literally) when I took dd1 to music groups. I wish I had had a choice, as believe me, even setting foot in a room where I was expected to mumble along with a song was excruciatingly painful. But I had to do at groups what we did at home, because she couldn't understand it otherwise.

I was probably judged a wanker - I quite honestly had absolutely no chance to notice.

Along came dd2, and we continued at the same groups. Once again, I had no choice but to do at groups what I did at home, a dd1 still couldn't cope with anything different happening, and had no chance of even beginning to understand why I would do so. I was probably judged once more, although possibly with some small understanding, as dd1 was by now 4ish, and it was clear she was not NT.

Then follows a gap, but now I have ds. Who has probably never heard an unharmonised song in his life - anything playing at all in our house gets extra parts added to it - the dds do it constantly. He will absolutely harmonise in a music group - why would he not?

At least Arya was honest - people will probably judge us. After 10 years + of being judged for practically every aspect of parenting (it happens every time we leave the house for one reason or antoher - that's life with severe disability) it won't bother me in the slightest (even though I will at least have some breathing space to notice this time around!).

And by the time ds is grown up, I doubt he will give a toss what naorrow minded people think either - he too will have a life full of being judged every time he leaves the house with his sister.

But for once (it does happen every so often) autism has been a blessing in our lives in this respect. Because my children will not care if people judge them for doing something which a) comes naturally to them and b) gives them a hell of a lot of pleasure without harming anyone else in the slightest.

This question, Pandarocks?

"Oxygenna - that takes me back to my quesiton - if it is ok for ds to do it now and force me to join in with him at what point does it become not ok for him to do it? "

"When does it not become ok? In my opinion, in scenarios such as the OP."

As you see I did answer there, above. And here, below:

"I don't see that it follows he will definitely, on reaching adulthood and having children of his own, harmonise at their toddler groups in turn."

Pandas - if he does it as naturally as breathing then let him! It's about the toddlers, isn't it. You sing the main tune to balance him out and let him get on with it.

But your situation is rather different from the OP's by the sound of it - why would you think people would judge you as being a wanker if your DD was harmonising? Nor would they judge her as a wanker (unless they're really up their own arses).

This is not about your children - it's about adults who are able to make the choice.

You said that much better than I could, Thumbwitch Agree absolutely.

I do like your certainty that somehow, along the course of their lives, wihtout actually being explicity told it is wrong, dd2 and ds will pick up the fact that they committed a gross faux pas while they were toddlers, and so won't do so as adults when in the same situation.

I can't see it myself - thnk about it. you spend your whole life doing one thing - as a family, at school, at groups. why would you do any differently when you start singing to your own children at home? and then all of a sudden, you're in a music group, being judged for doign something you've always doen, something that has just been a fact of your life.

A bit like I first started doing it with dd1 because it had been somethign I always did (albeit alone, until that point, and often instrumentally rather than vocally).

But anyway.

My point still stands - how, exactly, is it so wankery to just do something which is a part of the point of the group?

I don't buy the 'no one will judge oyur dd because it is ok for her to do it' (presumably because she is autistic) while it isn't ok for eg dd2 (who at the grand old age of 8 should now know differently, I assume?). It is still ok for ds, as he is little, but at some unspecified point in the future, it willno longer be ok. Noone will tell him when this poitn is, he will just have to know, just as dd2 is presumably supposed to know (despite being wildly encouraged to practise her talent during school hours). Even if the dc aren't judged for doing it, then I will be judged for being that parent who has children who do so past the toddler phase.

I find it baffling, tbh. And it's not even as though I want to bloody harmonise (or ever wanted to).

I'm beginning to lose the will to live. Time for me to move on from this thread I think.

Same here, hibiscus. :(

Ha ha when I was a teenager, I went through a period of disillusionment where I thought I had found Jesus. I started going to these amazingly Dawson's Creek-esque Mennonite youth groups. One of the girls there always used to burst into harmony during 'worship'. She blamed Jesus. Hard to argue against Jesus.

(I think I missed the point but that memory has really made me laugh!!!)

Tall poppy syndrome

Tall poppy, my arse. The same people who will raise an eyebrow at a show off doing harmonies at toddler group would doubtless be appreciative and impressed at some kind of choral event, where harmonies are appropriate. The thing about signing harmonies at toddler group is, you've made an occasion that's supposed to be about everyone singing the tune together and learning words and actions for small children into how musical and talented you are. It's not about you, at toddler group. That's why people will think 'twat'. Because it's all ego and showing off and this isn't the time.

Hear hear, Steamingnit.

I think it's really lovely Panda's that music has helped so much with communication for your daughter, and especially DD1. Thanks for sharing your experience of how singing has played such a big part in your lives.

Lots of strong thoughts as to if IBU or not and why which I've really enjoyed reading.

Decided to try and think 'I'm going to do what I want' rather than be so bothered about what people think of me so I'm afraid I will still be harmonising, albeit quietly, to 'Wind the Bobbin Up' and the like probably while thinking of this thread.

At our library stories/song group, the (oh so lovely) group leader told us that singing in harmony was good for morale / mental health, so she led us in rounds of Row Row Row.

What annoyed me (more than any mum singing too loud or in any way differently) was when no one sang at all. Or not at all audibly. Or, and this was not uncommon, for folks to carry on with their conversation while the leader led us in song. The woman wasn't doing a concert for us... It's a participation thing! Kids and grown ups! I enjoyed toddler music time so sweet! and sang right along. Sounds like you've landed in a good spot, OP.

Decided to try and think 'I'm going to do what I want' rather than be so bothered about what people think of me so I'm afraid I will still be harmonising, albeit quietly, to 'Wind the Bobbin Up' and the like probably while thinking of this thread.

Excellent idea. There are so many judgemental kill-joys on this thread - it's been an eye-opener for me.

Singing in harmony will not impede toddlers from learning tunes or words - if anything it will help grown their appreciation for and understanding of music. To frown on someone doing it - and judging their reasons - is truly bizarre.