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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

feeling uneasy about Rolf Harris stuff...

123 replies

gettingridiculous · 05/07/2014 00:50

I feel a bit uneasy about writing this. But something about the reporting of this makes me feel uncomfortable. Firstly, I want to make clear that I am absolutely satisfied with the fact that this man has been brought to trial, tried by a jury and found guilty. The sentence I think is appropriate given that he is approaching the end of his life - 10/20 years ago, I would argue that it would have been too lenient.

But I hate him turning from a man who cried at puppies to this evil villain. I think it distorts the reality and doesn't help people cope with being presented by inappropriate behaviour. I don't think, personally, that he deliberately forged this persona of funny, friendly guy to hide a devious intent to do bad. I think those two sides of his personality just co-existed. Some complex mental capacity enabled him to live a life as a "decent" human being and manage to do those deviant things in a pocket that was compartmentalised and set aside. I accept a certain societal mindset probably legitimised some of his sexist behaviour but the child abuse?

I think the complexity of most abuse cases is that the awful behaviour sprung out of nowhere (in the eyes of the victim), no-one wanted to believe it (victims especially) and it was allowed to continue because no one felt they had the power to deal with it.

Some recent posts about this really chimed with me. How it's exactly the fact that he was a "lovely" man made it all the more shocking. But that's who is responsible for most of abuse - the friendly uncle, the father, the priest, doctor, nun etc,,,,

Saville I think is an abberation in terms of the level of assistance he indavertantly (?) received from the NHS, BBC, church organisations etc...

I think most of the damage is done by people as seemingly "harmless" as Rolf Harris.

Any of this make sense?

OP posts:
kawliga · 05/07/2014 17:56

No one that hurts children can ever be described as a nice person imo.

I think the point of this thread is that you can't describe them as one thing only. OP wrote: I don't think, personally, that he deliberately forged this persona of funny, friendly guy to hide a devious intent to do bad. I think those two sides of his personality just co-existed. Some complex mental capacity enabled him to live a life as a "decent" human being and manage to do those deviant things in a pocket that was compartmentalised and set aside.

Which I think is a clear way to put it.

Back2Two · 05/07/2014 18:16

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DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 05/07/2014 18:16

Why are you so sure he was decent? We only saw him for half an hour at a time in the telly.

I think we'd like to think he was decent as I think it's human nature to look for the good in people.

Back2Two · 05/07/2014 18:18

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DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 05/07/2014 18:19

Personally I think that's exactly what he did, forged a persona to get close to children. I mean the guy was filming keep safe videos,I don't believe for a minute that wasn't done deliberately to deflect what he was doing.

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 05/07/2014 18:22

They are monsters. Anyone who does things like this is monstrous. They may do nice things, seem nice etc to get what they want.

Back2Two · 05/07/2014 18:26

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kawliga · 05/07/2014 18:28

damediazepam it is comforting to think they are monsters. That way we can say 'I have no monsters in my life so my dc are safe thank goodness' or 'my DC's babysitter is not a monster so the DC must be safe'. It is easy to keep safe from monsters.

Back2Two · 05/07/2014 18:30

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DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 05/07/2014 18:30

Interestingly someone on the other thread said they were at a festival where he was performing and she removed her kids really quickly as he was using really inappropriate language/swearingShock

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 05/07/2014 18:32

Kawliga-see my earlier post about family members,I know exactly who they are.

settingsitting · 05/07/2014 18:35

Good points on here.

My contribution is that nowadays, I dont take any notice of "celebrity status".

I am a bit sick of "celebrities" quite frankly.
They shouldnt have the status that they have.
And I am even more dubious of the ones who "do a lot for charity".

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 05/07/2014 18:37

Setting-I quite agree!

ICanSeeTheSun · 05/07/2014 18:37

When the news first broke I instantly thought that no way can this be true.

It has been shocking story because he was seen as a family man, that adored animals and wanted to entertain children.

settingsitting · 05/07/2014 18:40

Would like to add a different point.

Once, an odd situation arose with my children's friend's dad. I thought that the situation was ok, as he seemed nice and ok.
He probably was, I hope so.
But years later, two of my kids said they found him a bit creepy.
I didnt knwo this at the time, and basically vouched for him to another parent. He may well have been ok.

But the point is, I SHOULD HAVE ASKED MY OWN CHILDREN, EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE STILL AT PRIMARY SCHOOL.

Itsfab · 05/07/2014 18:49

I am really confused by what you are saying so I would ask that if some one you knew killed someone would you feel the same? Would you find it hard to believe that they were capable of murder as well as bringing Auntie Jane's shopping for her each week?

kawliga · 05/07/2014 18:53

Damediazepam, do you mean this post: one very dodgy teacher,a pervy, abusive great uncle on my side of the family and another uncle on my Dh's side.

Not saying monsters don't exist, of course they do, and I'm not saying the people you know were not monsters. I believe you if you say they were monsters. Dodgy teachers, pervy uncles, of course they exist, but they are easier to keep safe from because we can see that they are dodgy/pervy. I guess this thread is just saying that not all paedos exhibit monsterliness/dodginess/perviness.

Minnieisthedevilmouse · 05/07/2014 18:54

I agree. A person is complex. Emotional. Changes mood and intelligence fast. To portray him as a monster suits the media who need the public to believe in monsters. The truth about sexual crimes of any type is that it's usually an average Jo/Joe. Just like any other, could be any other.

LongTimeLurking · 05/07/2014 18:59

I agree with the OP, what an interesting post.

I think the problem is it is easier for everyone to think of all sex offenders and child abusers as 'evil' and paint a caricature of them all being dirty old men wearing raincoats, rather than accept the fact that some very ordinary and even 'nice' people are capable of such things.

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 05/07/2014 19:09

Kawliga-how are they easier to keep safe from if they're in your own family? Most abuse iirc is carried out by people known to the victim.

I seem to be losing what I'm trying to get across and it's coming across garbled..

kawliga · 05/07/2014 20:23

This stuff is hard to talk about. DameDiazepam, I guess I meant 'easier' to keep safe - it is never actually 'easy' if they are in your family but it is 'easier' if they are obviously dodgy than if they look all innocent because...well, not to victim-blame but you wouldn't leave your dc alone with a pervy uncle where he has an opportunity to perv? People only do that because they're scared of being labelled hysterical or scared of offending the uncle who may be perfectly innocent.

One of the victims in this case went on a five-week tour with the Harris family. If I sent my dd away with a family for five weeks no matter how much I trusted them I would allow myself to consider whether she would be safe and I would 100% have that in mind when catching up on the phone, etc. I think sometimes we miss signals because we're not alert to the possibility of risk. There is always a possibility of risk.

Eminorsustained · 06/07/2014 09:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

halfwildlingwoman · 06/07/2014 10:07

Back2two. I know what you are saying and I even wonder if I know you. I know someone who was convicted of sexual assault and everyday I struggle with the feelings I had for him as a person and what he did. I didn't see him for a long time after, but have actually seen him recently and he is still the same person. He has fully admitted what he did and knows it was wrong and has help for it. Do I walk away from a years long association because of one bad deed?

settingsitting · 06/07/2014 10:25

I would at least keep him at arms length halfwildling.

I think that it would be too hard to know for sure whether he has completely changed and would never do it again.

lljkk · 06/07/2014 11:18

Circles is an excellent charity to support. I couldn't do that volunteer work, I applaud those who do.

What bothers me is:

It's very unfashionable to believe in rehabilitation nowadays. There was a kind of golden age (?1960s-70s)of believing in the possibility that everyone should have a chance to change and that most people could change, but it's increasingly unpopular. Dismissed as wishy-washy liberalism.

It's funny how ultra-PC MN is on most topics but on something like the possibility of criminals having any shred of decency (including sexual offenders), MN is as reactionary as they come (short of Loud braying for the death penalty for every crime). Forgiveness is the most neglected virtue in modern times.

I think it must be so demoralising if you work with offenders & you're sincerely trying to get convicts to change but you know how hostile the outside world will be and do nothing to encourage the good in them. Maybe the death penalty would be a kinder fate.