to think you'll miss your GP when they're gone...

[macdoodle]

I have been roundly criticised on other thread for trying to express this. And whilst I admit that highjacking someone's thread may not have been the best way to do it, the crisis in NHS GP is very real.
I have bee around MN for a very long time now, and sometimes the anti GP sentiment is astounding and utterly depressing.
So read this...he is not a GP (I am), but this article absolutely sums up the current problems and morale in GP at the moment.
I have been a doctor for 20 years and a GP (or in GP training) since 1999 and can honestly say that NHS GP is in very real danger of being gone very soon.
For those who continually slate GP's , please tell me what your better suggestion is, because I trained in a country with no national GP service, and it really isnt better in any way.
www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/03/from-adrian_hilton-the-looming-manpower-crisis-in-gp-land.html

We are not privatised, we are independent contractors. Huge difference. At the moment the government changes our contract Willy nilly every year s they see fit. As well as our pension. And ridiculous amounts of beurocracy. We have open ended demand from both the public and secondary care. We just suck it up for ever decreasing profits, am curious what other private providers would do so. I would welcome a private contract where I could actually limit what I do. I am sure virgin/care UK et al will stick to their contracts like glue.I would ccertainly not do all the extra hours I do now for nothibg if I was private or salaried.

Oldfart you seem to think you are a medic by proxy..... And the comment about decent care was on purpose (jeez) it was a TIC jibe that your H obviously feels all GPs are crap and as such ionly fit to care for oldies whohe seems to think are the only group we can care for. But if I have to explain it then it's a bit pointless.

Oaf - what is your point?

I have not seen anybody on this thread dispute that most doctors work very hard. However, this constant bleating about the top grades required, postgrad training, poor pay in junior years etc is only ever mentioned by doctors despite being common to all professions - lawyers, actuaries, accountants, architects for example. Do you honestly think that people's salaries should be based on the number of UCAS points they obtained?

Apparently I am the only MN'er in the history of time who is not allowed to mention her DP, BUT he and I qualified in the same year (totally different jobs with similar training). He earnt more in the early years (whilst junior/SHO or whatever they are called now) and in the last couple of years I have started to earn about 25% more than him (excluding his private practice). For that I work most weekends, 70+ hour weeks are common, I am at the whim of my clients' demands and I am sent overseas at the drop of a hat. Do I mind? Of course not! It's bloody good money and I am extremely lucky.

There was a particulalry illuminating post upthread written by an academic who had basically reached the top of her game and was earning 36k per annum (i.e. slightly more than a tube driver). I sometimes wonder if the average GP actually realises how little the average Joe Public earns?

all GPs are crap and as such ionly fit to care for oldies whohe seems to think are the only group we can care for..

Please show me where I actually said "all GP's are crap" - I don't even have a GP in the UK or overseas. I don't need one because I choose to receive medical care abroad where I can self-refer and be seen more quickly. That is not being goady - it's just a fact.

DP thinks that GP's should manage "oldies" (nice attitude to your patients btw!) in the community, but that those with obvious red flag symptoms should be able to self-refer. This is his opinion despite the fact that it will increase his workload because he sees a lot of GP fuck-up patients whose lives he could have saved if the GP had not waited so long to refer.

And apparently this makes him an arsehole! Perhaps you're right and he should just accept the GP's killing off a few patients in the interests of professional harmony with them? That seems to be what you are implying.

Your point that you earn more than a highly qualified consultant with years of training and literally life in his hands is what? Sad if anything. And GPs earn less. I actually am grateful for my income but I have trained and continue to work very hard for it. I do not begrudge any other professional their income, my divorce solicitor charged me £275 an hour and was worth every penny.it's only doctors who as professionals are supposed to be work for free and be grateful for it.

Well the person who said about the it's terrible that doctors go on about doing a difficult job and how bad that is in a recession, I was pointing out to them (not to you) that it is a difficult job. I thought that was obvious however I forget whenever any NHS/GP thread appears you turn up like a bad penny twisting medics' words, head tilting because medics are angry about a system we all wish court change for the better for our patients and extolling the virtues of your husband having to put up with GPs and their stupid mistakes they all make because they are all useless in his exalted opinion (coz I bet he never made a mistake in work ever).

OF. So do you self refer for an ear infection?
You go abroad for an ear infection?

macdoodle. I would say thought at complaining about salary and your pension[not sure how many have large pensions in the uk] is not going to win you sympathy.
I think that once just about anyone's salary is above £60k, with or without a pension, doee not garner much sympathy by Joe Public, even on mumsnet.

And yet another example of your twisting medic's words...

do you honestly think people's salaries should be based on the number of UCAS points they earned

No I don't. And you know full well that was not my point. I was discussion difficulty of the job, not salary.

However I do think HEALTH PROFESSIONALS in general are underpaid (including nurses who I absolutely adore). Because of the responsibility of our jobs. The attitude on MN (and the daily Fail) is that doctors should work massively long hours with the responsibility medicine entails for pennies and be glad for it. There is nothing wrong with wanting a fair wage for doing a very important job.

I am not complaining about my income per se. But I have taken a 10% income drop with about a 20% increase in workload and more than 10% rise in expenses to keep my surgery running (and give our staff a raise). How many other professsionals or private providers would be happy with that? Should I be grateful?

my divorce solicitor charged me 275 an hour and was worth every penny.it's only doctors who as professionals are supposed to be work for free and be grateful for it.

You will probably (in fact, almost certainly) find that she actually received a very small proportion of that. The hourly rate will pay for the whole shebang, just like in what I do...

Nobody expects doctors to work for free. My point is simple - professional jobs are all demanding, and that it why they pay so well (comparatively speaking). There are advantages to GP work (e.g. part-time hours are possible, the pension is absolutely excellent) but also disadvantages (being at the whim of successive governments and being blamed for everything because you are at the sharp end). In other words, it's just like every other fecking job in the world!

Honestly, macdoodle some of your points are valid, but you come across as pretty apopleptic with rage. Take a holiday?!

Perhaps she is full of rage old because of the attitude of goady fuckers who constantly try to trip her up in words and go on about how certain hospital Gods think people in her profession are all useless fuck ups.

I could resign and locum/work ooh/work privately for a much better income/less stress / less workload/ less beurocracy. I choose not to because I love my job being a NHS GP with the continuity and relationship with my patients. But I am the youngest partner and we are struggling to recruit retiring partners, if I go then the practice will likely close in a few years. I very much suspect the governments plan and they service sold off to a private provider and I am not convinced it will be better in any way. But I am getting tired of fighting and against the constant onslaught GP morale all over the country is failing. In some areas practices have already folded. I am angry, and sad, and tired. Maybe it's time to give up now.

No you should not be grateful, but as I say, I think that anyone earning a good wage with pension loses some credibilty if they bleat about it.

It has always been life for those in the private sector to have varying degrees of workload and pay.
Now it has hit the public sector too.

So patronising " take a holiday". Thanks for that.

OF. So do you self refer for an ear infection?
You go abroad for an ear infection?

I work abroad. I have never had an ear infection. However, if I did, and it did not clear up, and I had other symptoms, then I would certainly request a CT brain. The difference being that in the UK, I may not actually receive one, whereas where I live, I would be given one within a couple of days.

whenever any NHS/GP thread appears you turn up like a bad penny twisting medics' words, head tilting because medics are angry about a system we all wish court change for the better

That's a fair point, and probably true. I have genuinely been surprised by how much better other countries are at providing medical care than we do through the NHS, and I am interested in exploring why that might be. Since my DP is NHS-employed and has lots of friends who are also hospital doctors, we discuss it a lot at home (of course, when I am not overseas with my job.)

This is Mumsnet, not Pravda (happily!) and dissenting opinions were allowed, last time i checked.

If you pay for a CT brain here you can have one tomorrow. Unfortunately in a system that is grossly underfunded not everyone who wants (or very sadly needs one) gets one. But if everyone knows what they need then that's fine, I'll go do something else.

OF. But if you were in the UK, which you must be for some hours each day, and you had something[you can provide what as an example], that needed prescribed medicine for in the few hours that you are in Britain, and it didnt need a scan or whatever, what do you do?

There's a vast difference between dissenting opinions and being a goady fucker. I'm glad you can admit that you always turn up on these threads ready to twist words and head tilt.

FWIW I trained in a country with no state funded primary care service , shall we say it was not good. You are coming at this from the view of a very privileged affluent side. I have seen and do see the other side. I am a fervent supporter of the NHS. Maybe I'm worng, time will tell.

go on about how certain hospital Gods think people in her profession are all useless fuck ups.

Again, where do I say that? I am certainly not the one being goady here, and yet I have been called an "arsehole" a "fucker" and "sad"...! I really don't give a shiny shite, I just think that it's foolish to pretend that you are not trying to supress people's criticism on the grounds that they are all thickos and GP-bashers and will be sorry when you all bugger off to Australia!

Macdoodle - I was genuinely suggesting that you take a holiday btw - you sound burnt out.

Why can't all GPs be part of the NHS in the same way that community nurses and hospital doctors/nurses are?

But if you were in the UK, which you must be for some hours each day, and you had something[you can provide what as an example], that needed prescribed medicine for in the few hours that you are in Britain, and it didnt need a scan or whatever, what do you do?

I get a private prescription from my DP. I would see a private GP if I needed to I guess. It honestly has not arisen, apart from once when I left some prescription meds behind in a hotel.

I am a fervent supporter of universal healthcare, Macdoodle. What I question is whether the NHS is the best way to deliver that.