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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that expressing anti-red hair views is still seen as okay

254 replies

GnomeDePlume · 26/06/2014 20:51

but is very, very wrong

DD(14) came home absolutely fuming having witnessed a red-headed girl of around 8 being verbally abused by a boy of around 10 while the mum of the boy told the girl to 'take the joke' even though the girl was very distressed. Fortunately the girl's brother rescued her.

DH is red-headed and believes that anti-red hair sentiment has become more common in recent years. Possibly because abusing somebody about the colour of their skin can get them arrested. Abusing somebody about the colour of their hair is seen as a fair target.

I dont get it. I have witnessed someone absolutely rip into a colleague, abusing him and his children (all red-headed) and this man could not see that what he was doing was wrong.

OP posts:
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lylasmam2012 · 29/06/2014 13:37

Em Irish here and a red head, I spend my whole childhood being abused for having red hair. It's not a new thing at all!!!

Chunderella · 29/06/2014 14:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

waterducksback · 29/06/2014 14:21

Short AND Redheaded? However do you survive in life lol?

Seriously, I love redhair, and yes, I'm sure there are some idiots that make fun, but my hair is curly (extremly curly) when I was little.

I grew up to the occasional call oof Shirly Temple, Curly Sue and Bog Brush Hair was another favourite.

I Survived.

waterducksback · 29/06/2014 14:22

Oh yes, not forgetting Oi - Short Arse!

Thumbwitch · 29/06/2014 14:28

Pisses me right off. Angry

I objected very strongly to people saying things like "oh thank goodness he doesn't have red hair though, eh" about both my DSs. I do have red hair (although it's faded to nondescript now) and it really annoyed me. Annoyed me more that DH said it too though - not only did he marry a redhead, but his mum was a redhead too! Stupid sod. Apparently he thought it was "ok on women but really awful on men - he'd get called "Blue" at school" (as i that was the worst nn they could come up with - "ranga" is often used in Australia and is far more unpleasant Hmm (short for orangutan for anyone who hasn't heard it before).

Even my sister said she was glad her DD wasn't a "ginga" - cheers sis. Nice vote for family feeling there. Angry

Thumbwitch · 29/06/2014 14:30

Missed the bit about it becoming more common in recent years - no, I don't think so. Gingerism was rife when I was at school, decades ago. :(

plentyofshoes · 29/06/2014 14:31

I witnessed it from a surestart worker at babygroup recently. A baby there had light red hair, surestart worker said at "least its not a proper ginger colour"...
A mum was sat next to her who was.
I was not impressed.

plentyofshoes · 29/06/2014 14:31

I witnessed it from a surestart worker at babygroup recently. A baby there had light red hair, surestart worker said at "least its not a proper ginger colour"...
A mum was sat next to her who was.
I was not impressed.

GnomeDePlume · 29/06/2014 14:36

But water before you were born did people speak to your mother in voices of horror saying 'what if she is short?' or 'what if she has curly hair'. Did anyone say to your mother before you were born 'if she was born curly haired and short I would throw her in the bath'?

I dont think many people have said 'I dont normally like people with curly hair and I really hate children with curly hair'

It is too easy to dismiss it as just a bit of teasing. It isnt when genuine hate lies behind it.

OP posts:
waterducksback · 29/06/2014 14:43

Gnome - fair point.

What is it about red hair, that makes people - well, see red? Confused

waterducksback · 29/06/2014 14:45

Trying to find out and found this

theweek.com/article/index/255821/the-science-behind-anti-redhead-prejudice

Glitterfeet · 29/06/2014 14:48

Gnome I agree, it often isn't just a bit of name calling. My son has been had people try and hit him off his bike with a stick, been slapped as he's walking past a group boys, had people throw stuff at him, been grabbed. He doesn't act like a victim and copes with it by dismissing them as idiots. Developing a thicker skin doesn't reduce the crap he has to it up with.

What may be a quick stupid comment by one person is day in day verbal abuse to the person on the receiving end. I know that's what my son puts up with. I grew up repeatedly being pointed at in the street and told I'd never be pretty, or get a boyfriend with my colouring.

KneesoftheBee · 29/06/2014 17:21

Personally, I think we should reclaim the word "ginger" and turn it back into a positive. As a child, I used to be called ginger in an affectionate way. It simply describes a hair colour, similar to blonde, brunette etc. Why should the bullies turn it into a negative?

I like this website gingerparrot.co.uk/

SummerRemembered · 29/06/2014 17:39

I'm a redhead and agree with those who can't even bring ourselves to use the "G" word as it dredges up such bad memories.

I was bullied throughout my schooldays because of my hair colour. I had no friends and was utterly miserable. I was punched in the face by strangers; pinned against walls and interrogated about the colour of my pubic hair; thrown down stairs and on one occassion pushed into the road in front of a bus while a group of older teenagers screamed "kill the ginger!"

I had taunts of ginger, ginga, ginger minger, ginger pubes and so many more, shouted or whispered at me wherever I went. I used to dread the singsong greeting of "hey ginga" from behind as I knew that turning around would bring some kind of physical or emotional torture; trying to run away and avoid the situation would make it worse.

Anyone brushing up against me would then run away screaming that they had "ginger disease" which would then start a frenzy of classmates trying to wipe it off on each other.

A new teacher when I was around 14, turned to the rest of the class when I entered the room for the first time, saying, "oh god, we've got one of them. Don't you just hate gingers". After two years of putting up with him telling me the sight of me made him sick and encouraging the rest of the class to ridicule me, I eventually snapped. Having heard a rumour that he was very sensitive about his own bald head I politely and sweetly answered one of his taunts by querying what hair colour he used to have and was this the reason for his jealousy which he was trying to disguise at bitterness. He went puce, spluttered and gave me detention. The only detention I ever had at school - and it got overturned when I explained to the year head what had happened!

I had other girls tell me that they quite liked me but couldn't be friends because they couldn't be seen hanging out with a ginger. At age 17, a guy I had fancied since S1, told me he really liked me and wished he got ask me out but his reputation would be ruined if he went out with someone like me.

I kept diaries throughout my teenage years and they are full of my hair-induced misery. Outside of school my family fawned over my "beautiful" hair and I was often stopped my little old ladies who told me how lovely it was. I didn't understand why people of my own age could not see it the same way. I used to sit crying in the night, afraid to go to school the next day and I wrote in my diaries about how I wanted to kill myself. On one occassion I went as far as to collect every pill i could in the house - over the counter pain relief, prescription meds etc and sat with them in front of me, willing myself to take them all. But then, as I wrote in my diary; if I was to kill myself, it would be over something that matters to me and not to other people.

It wasn't just me. There were other redheads at school getting the same treatment on a daily basis. The boys got it worse and even at my lowest ebb, I was eternally grateful for being female.

I found university to be a completely new world where nobody ever commented on anything so frivolous as my hair colour. There, some people complimented me on it and meant it! I did however work part time in a well known department store as a student and found the grown women there to be as bad as the children I'd known at school. A group of women in their 40s even did the "ginger disease" thing if I touched them. One woman thought it was the finniest thing ever to come up to me and say (it was 1996!) "The Spice Girls are Baby, Sport, Posh, Scary and... I can't remember the other one...?" And when I replied Ginger, she and her cronies would fall about, hooting with laughter.

I don't have children and it is unlikely I will but people have asked if the reason is because I don't want to pass on the gene. My brother has Downs Syndrome so I would always feign ignorance and ask if that is what they mean but no, they always mean being a redhead; which apparently is a worse fate than disability.

Red hair runs in my family. My aunt freely admits that she was devastated and couldn't stop crying when my younger cousin was born with red hair. She started dying it for him when he was 12, so he would look better. Now he is 22 and has reverted to his natural colour, much to her disappointment.

A while ago, I met a woman at a party who spoke about having had her son with IVF and donor sperm. Or, she said "the other way to look at it is that I paid good money to ensure I didn't end up with a ginger one". Everyone laughed.

The year, two close friends have had babies within days of each other. The first, born to dark haired parents is red. My friend related this fact to me in hushed tones on the phone. When the other friend's child was born with a full head of dark hair, dark eyes etc despite the fact that his father is a proper pale redhead (the mother is darker), friend no1 threw an almighty strop about it being unfair and the other couple should have got the ginger one. Any time I've seen couple no.2 socially, someone will always point out their son's "lucky escape".

All this is in central Scotland so not just an English thing at all.

I know that technically and semantically it is not racist. Too many people however seem to take that to mean that all is okay then. It's not. It is still prejudice, bigotry and a hate crime. While the instances I've mentioned are nothing compared to the atrocities inflicted on ethnic groups throughout history and even now in other parts of the world, I would describe the level of hate-fueled attacks I have experienced as being as bad as modern racism.

Yes, teasing happens and people are teased about many things but too often in this specific situation, teasing turns to bullying and that is not okay. I understand that people who are tall, short, overweight, wear glasses etc have experienced prejudice but I don't believe it is to the same extent and the examples I have mentioned just wouldn't happen to other categories. Nobody would suggest that someone not have children because they might wear glasses and people that are short are not treated as lesser human beings in the way that I experienced and if you substitute any ethic description in the examples I have cited, the jokes would not be "funny" at all.

Unfortunately the more people just tell redheads to take the joke or tell us we are being oversensitive, the more encouragement there is to continue.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 29/06/2014 17:58

I'm sorry for all you've been through SummerRemembered - glad people were not quite so ignorant at Uni.

I'm interested that you say "I know that technically and semantically it is not racist" and wondered if you or others with this view could say more about it?

I'm genuinely interested in equality for all, and feel for the reasons given up-thread that abuse of those with red hair (and other related features) can be a type of racism (though thankfully often not as extreme as against other groups - evidently sometimes pretty bad given the experiences shared here)

KneesoftheBee · 29/06/2014 18:05

Summer you have obviously had some terrible experiences and please do not think I am not fully aware of the abuse that goes on.

The first school photo I have of DS2 (aged 4 at the time), he has a bald patch where he managed to cut out a chunk of his hair because he didn't like the colour (due to being called names).

I was bullied at school, not because of the colour of my hair, but because I was overweight. That bullying led to full blown anorexia. If I hadn't been fat, no doubt it would have been my hair they picked on. The fact is they were bullies and they would find anything to pick on someone if they want to bully.

When I say I want to reclaim the word "ginger", it is to take power back from the bullies. It was the way I taught my own DC to cope with bullying. If someone shouted "Oi Ginger" they simply answered "What?". That used to confuse the bullies.

I told them that if someone calls them a ginger bastard or a ginger minger, the offensive words are bastard and minger - not ginger!

Thumbwitch · 29/06/2014 18:16

It's not racist purely because being redheaded is not a Race definition, Juggling. Although it might be seen as being more associated with certain nationalities, red hair does not make a separate race, and so therefore cannot be described as racism.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 29/06/2014 18:19

That sounds a great approach Bee and the sort of thing I'd say to dd if needed, who's a red-head.

She was once teased for being a "book-worm" and said that yes, she loves books (what of it?) Apparently that worked well (disarmed them effectively) - I think she goes to a nice school though if that's the worst she's had!

I also think .... Though you can have different strategies for dealing with bullies it shouldn't fall to the bullied to take the responsibility for it not happening.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 29/06/2014 18:23

OK Thumbwitch but from the distribution maps that Lady supplied it seems to be a common characteristic of the old celtic tribes, so more common in Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. Adding to the argument that it could be considered to be a form of racism?

Just interested to discuss and learn more, that's all Smile

Thumbwitch · 29/06/2014 18:27

Not really though. It's a common feature, not a defining characteristic, therefore not really racist. Hence the "technicalities and semantics" that Summer mentioned.

HibiscusIsland · 29/06/2014 18:30

Really sorry about the awful experiences you have had Summer I agree with "Unfortunately the more people just tell redheads to take the joke or tell us we are being oversensitive, the more encouragement there is to continue."

I have wondered too if some of the people who make a big thing of diminishing what some red heads suffer and saying it is no different from what people with blonde or curly hair go through, are doing so because they have in the past taunted people with red hair and are not wanting to accept that what they've been a part of!

Ohhelpohnoitsa · 29/06/2014 18:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Flipflops7 · 29/06/2014 19:32

Since "not being racism" (I disagree, white Gaels and Celts are not raceless, nobody is) seems to be an obstacle to this issue being taken seriously, I assume we can all agree it is a hate crime and should be treated as such?

JugglingFromHereToThere · 29/06/2014 19:44

Yes, I agree with you there Flipflops
(Wow, 7 flipflops - you get through them at a rate!)

KeeperOfBees · 29/06/2014 19:45

Summer great post.
We had pretty much identical upbringings. At 15 I once wet myself in class as I was too frightened to get up and walk to the toilet.
Just because it's not racism doesn't make it hurt any less.