To think that expressing anti-red hair views is still seen as okay

[GnomeDePlume]

but is very, very wrong

DD(14) came home absolutely fuming having witnessed a red-headed girl of around 8 being verbally abused by a boy of around 10 while the mum of the boy told the girl to 'take the joke' even though the girl was very distressed. Fortunately the girl's brother rescued her.

DH is red-headed and believes that anti-red hair sentiment has become more common in recent years. Possibly because abusing somebody about the colour of their skin can get them arrested. Abusing somebody about the colour of their hair is seen as a fair target.

I dont get it. I have witnessed someone absolutely rip into a colleague, abusing him and his children (all red-headed) and this man could not see that what he was doing was wrong.

I've got quite bushy eyebrows Boca (not ginger myself) and I'm not happy with them either!
dd (who is ginger) was just talking about her eyebrows the other day. She said once she shaved one off and no-one noticed. Not sure what her conclusion was mind you

have not read thread but I agree its hideous, I have heard some mind boggling nasty comments about red heads.

Really horrid.

When Robbie Williams came out with that 'less popular than a ginger headed stepchild' it made me cringe. My DF had a new 'ginger headed stepchild' and he was already being bullied in school because of his colouring. I don't think people realize how their throwaway jokes can affect people.

DH and I both come from red headed stock. DS has the most beautiful red hair - he tells everone he is auburn and when drawing a scribble self portrait he looks for an auburn crayon . He has amber eyes and olive skin so he's rather striking in his way!

PILs live in rural France and DS is considered a witch's child by the yokels and "unlucky" [might be some truth in that!]

My family are ridiculed for their extraordinarily beautiful hair and many people take the piss comment on DS's hair.

So YANBU

I agree with you OP. It's so bad that when I complimented a colleague for her natural red hair (she usually dyed it blonde) she thought I was taking the piss and cried . After that she explained she had been bullied because of her hair colour in school.

I have two beautiful red haired babies age 18 months and 5 months. DH is red haired. I'm dark haired and quite olive skinned

People regularly feel free to ask me if they're adopted . When I say: "No" none of your fucking beeswax if they were I have twice been told that of course they wouldn't as who would adopt ginger children. Ha. Ha.

Whilst I was pregnant with my first DC, a black colleague at work continually told me that she really hoped for the baby's sake that it didn't have ginger hair. As an employment lawyer, I'm quite conscious of the fact that if I had made any pejorative comments about the shade of colour of her DC, I would have faced disciplinary action and probably would have been quite lucky to narrowly avoid being dismissed.

Gobbolino I think you have got to the nub of the matter. Being offensive about somebody's natural born hair colour is okay. Being offensive about a person's natural born skin colour is not okay.

Only of course being offensive about someone's natural born hair colour isnt okay.

It's not ok, but I must admit to bristling at it being equated to racism.

There just isn't the same history of horrific oppression.

Fat jokes/fat related bullying /fat insults are not ok but nothing like racism (and we even have evidence that a fat person is less likely to be employed for example).
Same with insults about dress sense, bad teeth, flat chests, big nose, bad skin etc. but none of that is on a par with racism, it doesn't come from the same deep rooted belief that a black person (for example) is less of a human, less valuable, with different morals etc. A person to be feared and therefore oppressed.

Perceived imperfections are easy ways to attack/rib a person. Whether we'd agree that redheadedness is an imperfection is neither here nor there, it's part of a bully's arsenal regardless.

I'm not talking about the effect on the bullied person, I fully believe someone bullied, especially in formative years, can find their whole lives affected by the experience. I'm not trying to minimise the damage.

But the motivation of the attacker/bully is key to whether we're getting into ism territory.

Racial harassment is coming from a fundamental dismissal of a persons humanity.

Insults about hair colour, weight, attractiveness are all interchangeable, the motivation is to hurt/humiliate/embarrass...the victim could be anyone, the insults will be whatever 'imperfection' is easiest to see.

Lady I thought the red hair prejudice had anti-Irish rootsin the UK?
Because I haven't heard from it in other countries

I have not read the whole thread yet - but have noticed a few poster saying 'not in the US' - maybe a regional thing because where I am in the US I hear lots of 'anti red head' comments.

I asked about it and apparently a lot of it stems from the tv show South Park - where they make fun of a red headed kid

doesn't come from the same deep rooted belief that a black person (for example) is less of a human, less valuable,

Um...I think suggesting that no one would want to adopt children with ginger hair is, actually, stating that they are less valuable and less of a human. Do you not see that that is incredibly offensive?

Further, it's not just "black" that is a race. "White" is also a race. More white people than black people are likely to have ginger hair. Therefore stating constantly that you really hope that an unborn child does not share a mainly white characteristic is, arguably, racist.

I was pretty "bristling' every day listening to it, I can tell you.

Actually, I've not explained the "race" point technically correctly. Black and white are not "races" per se - hence the "italics". However, even without the correct legal definitions, the point in my post still stands.

It is rude and not appropriate to make pejorative comments about racial characteristics - ginger hair being one of them. Just because a particular race may have suffered oppression does not give the right to be racist and offensive to others

There seems to be a lot of red headed kids around here where I live, including my son, and I haven't had anything negative yet. It is a beautiful hair colour!
I am not a red head but have dark hair with freckles and pale skin, I wish I had embraced it more as a teenager - I now love being pale. Its who I am! Plus, my obsessive use of suncream over the years has meant no sun damage to my face :-)

I completely agree with you, OP. I saw someone make an unpleasant comment about my friend's child who has red hair - on her facebook! It's vile and as abhorrent as any other prejudices.

No, I think it's been a very interesting thread. I think abuse of people for having red hair is a, sometimes mild, sometimes quite serious, form of racism.
From my experience teaching children I've seen racial and/or cultural and religious hatred and intolerance in more than one direction between different cultural groups of children.
I don't think these observations and conclusions take away from the reality of the prolonged oppression of black people.
I feel they sit alongside a belief that all people are fundamentally equal and should be treated as such by one another.

Gobbolino and others, Yy. There is a peculiar belief espoused by mainly English people that it's OK to be racist to white people whether by anti-ginger remarks - covert anti-Gaelicism - or anti-country remarks - the ludicrous unpleasantness the Welsh have to put up with, etc. These issues post-date the tackling of conventional racism. It's like people just can't stop!

Lemongrab (great name, I love AT :) ) what I remember of the anti-black racism in my childhood was that it had quite a lot to do with appearance and far less to do with their fundamental humanity. It was very similar to anti-ginger today. Gobbolino's colleague was being racist.

An Irish judge in 2001 fined a man for disorderly conduct stating “I am a firm believer that hair coloring has an effect on temper and your coloring suggests you have a temper.”

Redheads have always been thought untrustworthy. Judas is most always depicted as a redhead displaying the prejudice against red hair.

The Romans kept red haired slaves, and at a higher price.

Adolph Hitler reportedly banned the marriages of two redheads as he feared their children would be “deviant offspring”.

“Ill beat you like a redheaded stepchild”. This phrase was born out of the American south and implies the status of illegitimate offspring with a white master.

At some point in history Brahmins were forbidden to marry redheads.

In France, to be redheaded is thought to be a fate so dire that some women have formed a “Proud to be Red” association.

Red haired children have been historically branded as offspring of “unclean” sex. This has earned them taunts such as “red-knob” or “tampon tops.”

The Bible states in I Corinthians 11:15 that a woman’s long hair is a glory to her because it can be used as a covering. Yet in Song of Solomon 4:1 it states that it is an object that invites desire. I guess there is no loosing.

Bees are thought to sting redheads more than others.
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^ Just a few interesting facts. I think it goes deeper than a dislike of pale skin & freckles. By the way, I have red hair as does all my family. I love it and always have done.

wow, who was that judge? I really really hope that that stupid comment was the end of his career.

It's not ok if it's being nasty as with anything else. My dad and one of my friends are ginger and they find it hilarious to have a playful joke about being ginger. But being nasty is something different. The mother shouldn't have told her to take the joke, she should have told her son "you've clearly upset her I think you need to say sorry and not say this again". I would also point out that this wouldn't be acceptable around kids but seems accepted around adults as long as it is all in fun.

All people belong ethnically to at least one race.

A stunningly beautiful, bright and talented red headed 15 year old girl that I know of killed herself last year.

At the time (although obviously there wasn't much reporting on reasons etc, just the horrifying loss) it was said that she had an eating disorder and had periods of depression.

Later on her father spoke out against the consistent bullying of red headed children.

Obviously her hair colour can't have been the sole reason for her death but to face bullying for something so arbitrary when you are already feeling low/suffering MH problems can't have helped.

Realised I didn't actually answer the question - YANBU. It shouldn't be okay to bully anybody for anything about their appearance. But somehow red heads are supposed to take the abusive comments as jokes and laugh it all off. As the story of the girl I posted about above shows, sometimes that just isn't possible.

Another redhead here. I love it so much that my email address mentions it. I was teased at school but, so what. Other kids were teased for other things. I had several boyfriends who confessed to dating me because I had red hair. We are very special. None of my 3 kids have red hair, I am disappointed. I have told them their kids will have red hair and they are horrified. They are always teasing me. I like being different. I always think those who say they don't like it are just jealous. Celebrate being a redhead/ginger. There are annual get togethers in USA and a huge one in The Netherlands. I would love to go one day.

YANBU

I have auburn ish red hair and have always been teased not just for my hair colour, but for how pale I am. I'm happy with myself generally, but I can guarentee at some point every summer I get a ginger 'joke' from someone and be told I need to go on a sun bed