school trip for 13 year olds which involves setting off at 2am?

[Mintyy]

My child is going on a 3 day school trip to a European country.

Today I find out that the timing of the outward bound flight means that we have to get her to school for boarding the coach by 2.15am.

Aibu to think this is nuts?

Actually, not disingenuous at all, MadameDefarge.

OP has been quite grumpy on this thread, but fair enough, she's not alone in finding it an onerous thing to do a school run at silly o'clock.

She made it quite clear that she wasn't interested in a discussion about teacher workload, describing it as a 'red herring' as far as her OP was concerned.

I'm mildly bemused as to why you'd think that a comment I made in reply to another poster on a topic which the OP had explicitly stated she didn't wish to discuss, was directed at the OP.

However, since you do seem quite convinced that she needs you to defend her from the unpleasant attack which I made on her from within the confines of your imagination, let me reassure you again that I have no reason to think that she is in any way the sort of parent who behaves in an unappreciative or hostile manner towards school staff...

As far as dropping kids for trips at 2.15 goes, I'm also in Team Doing It But Moaning Like Fuck. It is a right PITA. But there are good reasons why it happens, & they are not because the staff think it's fun!

No one has ever suggested the staff thinks its fun. which is why it was a red herring.

I think it's fairly normal.

The first day of the first, only and potentially last trip abroad I have done as a teacher went like this:
8pm - children arrive in school
8.30pm - all children in bed and lights out
1.30am - after 5 hours of giggling, squealing kids and pacing, growling teachers sleep, all children up
2.00am - 'breakfast' and into the minibuses for the airport
2.10am - first child vomits (probably due to tiredness/disorientation
3.00am - another child vomits in their sleep and doesn't wake up
3.20am - arrival in the airport. Dazed, over excited/tired children, lost boarding passes (they have to look after their own to be able to buy anything in a shop/café there!)
5.30am - flight. Another child vomits.
8am (ish, can't remember) - arrival and a whole day of sightseeing begins
5.30pm - arrival at hotel
6.30pm - following tears over room allocation (due to tiredness) we get tears over food and homesickness (again, probably due to tiredness)
8.30pm - protests over bedtime (despite being tired enough to cry and throw up)
10.30pm - teachers sleep for the first time in around 38 hours.

Not totally a red herring - several posters were critical of schools for apparently booking small hours departures.

Hence other posters pointing out the reasons for it, the fact that it's largely out of the booking school's control, & the fact that it is extremely gruelling for teachers, & as such, if there was a viable alternative that involved not doing it, er, that's what we'd be doing.

manicinsomniac - '38 hours? LUXURY...' .

I'm definitely NOT doing this again. The children can miss out. I'm not losing 2 nights sleep out of 7 just so my kids can go on a jolly. They can resent me forever more in their adulthood and come and moan about me on Mumsnet.

i cannot understand this attitude, your children have to miss out because you cannot miss a bit of sleep! It is such fun for children to go on a jolly/school trip. I had so much fun on my school trips, so when I was in the school car park at half 2 in the morning I was excited for my daughter I did not care if I was a bit tired at work the next day. More excited that she has a good time than me losing sleep

OP, you can do a good day's work on a few hours' sleep, you know. I bet every working mother on here has done it.

And before I get flamed, that includes mothers staying at home with a full day's work looking after babies etc.

This is usual practice at my DCs school. Just something you have to do as a parent. Not really a big deal.

I'm still at work and will be an hour from now, then I will go home and then get up at 8am as my dc has a planned trip to go on a boating lesson. I will be knackered and dc will be delighted and quite frankly I can manage without the sleep for 5 minutes watching how genuinely delighted he will be. Few hours extra sleep, nice, few minutes watching my dc unable to stop grinning bloody priceless. No contest for me.

But what time did you expect them to leave? You will have known the duration of the trip and the distance? Common sense?

It's ok, you don't need to worry. UCAS are not informed that the child had two late nights when 13 and there won't be a written record of it so shouldn't affect future prospects. However, it is only fair to warn you that (whispering) some sugar may be imbibed during this trip. yes, that's right, sugar. UCAS may have already been informed but as long as the other mums in your group don't find out it should be ok.

Meanwhile in the real world...children not able to go to school, girls fighting to be allowed an education, Iraqi children have no school because it was bombed by your country. Get a grip, seriously.

So by getting an early flight out/late home they get 3 full days there and only pay 2 nights' accommodation. Sounds better than the overnight coach trips we used to do.

That's a horrible time.
But flights are often at crappy times and that wouldn't prevent me from taking or sending dcs on a trip.
A more comfortable flight time would mean a greater expense, busier airport, perhaps a crappier arrival time.

Ha! So yes, I too would do this but moan like fuck
Mainly because of the effect on work. I might try to take a days leave?

Parenting is full of disruptions - this is a minor and very temporary one that you are making a molehill out of.

I agree with this.

For a trip to Europe using, one assumes, the cheapest flights possible, I would expect it to be unsociable.

My DSs are both goin on separate trip is to Spain in the October half term. I fully expect I will have to get up at some horrendous hour two days in a row. For the second one, I'll have to haul DD out of bed to come with me.

I can't remember a school trip that didn't leave at silly hours.

That's part of the fun!

What mean old fart of a parent would refuse a school trip request for this reason.

The dd will be on here in 10years talking about her nc DM.

Oh you boring old fart.
Who would begrudge their kids such an opportunity because they might miss some sleep.
Did you never do anything fun about 50 years ago when you were younger OP?

THINK OF THE TEACHERS! kids are resilient - teachers less so

Pretty standard I'd say if you don't live near an airport/ seaport. I remember these trips well. As you say, OP, you just have to suck it up and get over it.

Its not a lovely time of day for anyone (unless youre Coming hime from a night out) and the kids will be tid (but excited and old enough to handle that) and the teachers will be tired too.
It's surely gotta be toughest for a working parent doing the drop off/ pick up.
But all worth it in the end.

Ds1 did a 3am set off this past January when he was 9. We just thought it was really exciting to set off in the middle of the night!

I suppose less of a shock to us as we have a 2 year old so broken nights were not the distant past and DH's job is one he can do while tired.

I feel for you tho, it's hideous & it was a shock to us to find that out a month before. I guess the alternative is it being far more expensive.

"If they left later, they wouldn't fit everything in or have to stay two nights. Most parents don't mind."

Most parents prob do mind, but moan about it elsewhere, as Mintyy has done.

Sure, when you are in baby mode, you expect disturbed nights - but a sleepy feed and nappy change is a bit different to getting up and out. 2.15 am is tough - too late to not go to bed at all, too early to get any meaningful sleep.

We never chose the oh-my-god-it's-early flight times ourselves for holidays, so this thread is helpful in setting expectations.

Being a "half decent" (nice) parent and getting up for an emergency is a different kettle of fish.

Finally, we have no idea what Mintyy's job is and when she normally gets up - she could be in a job where fatigue is dangerous.

I think if school has run this trip before, a "flight time tbc but likely to be in the small hours" on the info would've helped Mintyy feel better now!

*exciting for HIM not for us!

plus its ONE Day minty - you will manage
I have to do 3 am in a couple of weeks