Even in the 1950s this cannot have been "right"

[PuddingandPie1]

My twin brother died in 1964 from an asthma attack on the way home from our primary school. Looking back I don't think that I was ever given any support after Stephen died. Certainly not from the school, Stephen became a non-person, never to be mentioned again. We had twin desks in the classroom and of course he and I had been put together but after he died I just sat at the same double desk on my own.

Mum was allowed, even encouraged, by the family and the community to show emotion but Dad and I were expected to do the old stiff upper lip job. It isn't surprising that I ended up bitterly resented Stephen for years, certainly well into my 20s. Every nice thing that ever happened to me seemed to be tainted by his death and I, stupidly, started thinking that I didn't matter to my parents.

I suspect that the main reason it took me close to 50 years to find closure was due to the lack of support in the 12 months after Stephen died and it makes me as mad as hell to think that!

I remember you posting on the anniversary of his death this year.

I suspect the generation that had been children during the war and whom had themselves seen the effect of the First War were incredibly stunted emotionally. We have a lot of horror stories in our family.

I do hope you can finally get some peace.

My grandmother lost both a child in infancy and her husband within a few years of each other. Neither were spoken of and we have so little to remember them by. The stiff upper lip was awful, my grandmother was in a lot of emotional turmoil- looking back over her life you can see she never recovered from it. So sad.

I am glad you have made peace now.

My mum died when I was 8 in 1982.
Like a PP all trace of her vanished from the house. I thought she had run away because I had been bad.
People would talk about her dying in front of me as though I couldn't hear. I didn't go to her funeral and was back at school the next day. I found out by accident that they sent me out with the register so the class could say prayers for me and her.

I grieved for her at university with new friends as I could talk to them. My eldest DD is named after her and is talk very openly about her to my DC. Their grandad was very ill recently and I was very open about how he might die etc even though my DH didn't want them to know anything in case they would be upset. Of course they would be upset but as adults we have to help them be aware, at an age appropriate level

So sorry for the losses of all on this thread.

I have worked and volunteered with offenders and time and again when one of them talks about their childhood, they will say, "when Mum/Dad/my Brother/my Sister died". So many people with bereavements which are not acknowledged. It is a trauma and one that can ruin lives. We still need to deal with it better.

You're so right, MrsTP. This thread's made me wonder about my grandfather - he was lovely to me, no personal complaints, but utterly awful in general. I didn't understand many of his stories until adulthood: he caused a great deal of lasting harm. Born in 1895, so was in both wars. You couldn't come through that unscathed, I imagine.

I remember "shell shock" was a real thing when I was small. You were supposed to feel sympathetic for the men, but give them a wide berth and be careful not to annoy them. The only permitted talk about the wars was the jolly songs, funny things that happened in the air raid shelters, digging for victory, and the odd little souvenirs the men brought back. I wonder, if they'd been able to speak of their realities, would my parents' & grandparents' generations have been less tormented?

I'm really sorry to hear of the way you were treated, PuddingandPie. The bit where you were left sitting at an empty double desk doesn't bear thinking about, never mind living it as you had to.

You might find it a small comfort, I hope, to know that things are done very differently now. A child has recently died at my DS's school, and the school have addressed it openly, sent letters home to the parents, and offered support to the children that want it. Another child died at DS's primary school a few years ago, and the school held an assembly, created a memorial garden, and the proceeds from that year's school fair went to the family, so they could do something nice with their remaining children. I wish you and your late brother had been offered something similar.

I know its not quite the same but for example when my dad left to start a new improved family back in the 1970s my brother and I were told to get on with it and not act as though we came from a 'broken home'. and that was it.....

I think it would be nice if Stephen could have a better gravestone. At the moment all it says is his name and his dates. I think one that mentions our Mum and Dad and that he was a twin would be nicer. I imagine I will have to get permission from the vicar or the bishop or somebody but it shouldn't be impossible to do. A bench with his name on at the primary school we both attended is another possibility.

That bench is a lovely idea, PuddingandPie. Or even both your names - the brother who was lost, and the brother who is remembering him.

I've lurked for ages, but this thread has made me finally register, if only to offer a large number of virtual hugs to the OP, and other posters who are hurting. When people say it was so much better 'back then' they are clearly not thinking of this kind of thing. All power to you OP, and to Stephen. I'm raising my glass to you both.

My Dad (the eldest)'s brother (born early 1940s) was born with Down's Sundrome. He was basically just taken from my grandmother at birth, and put in a home. The home must have been associated with a hospital. When my uncle (the third brother) was born in that hospital, she tried to go down and see my other uncle at night time, but was caught, and taken back to her bed.

My uncle with DS died aged 3. He fell out of his cot. Who was looking after him, in the home? How neglected had he been, to be a). in a cot aged 3, and b). able to come to grief in the cot without anyone noticing? :(

I never knew about any of this until I was in my 30s, I think.

My grandmother just had to accept all this. I never met her. She died before I was born, and my Dad thinks, looking back, she almost certainly had PND after her third son was born. Well, you would, wouldn't you...

Pudding - I think that's a lovely idea and second that you should have both your names on the bench.

Japanese - such a sad story, like so many on this thread. :(

They were different times. My mother had a friend who would be in her 90's now if still alive. Her second child was a daughter who died at birth, the midwife told her the baby was dead and just told her not to be bothered as it would have been sickly and to think about having another one. She still got upset talking about it when she was in her 70's.

What a heartbreaking thread :(

to everyone with a loss on this thread

My BiL's mother dies when he was away on a residential school trip. He wasn't called back and missed the funeral. He ony found out when he got home. Heartbreaking

This is very sad to read. Maybe attitudes were different in earlier times too as in the 1920s my nan was one of 13 children, two of whom died in childhood, age 3 and 9 and yet as far as I can tell they did talk about the children.

My nan would even still talk about them to me when I was a child, I know their names, things they liked/didn't like and how they behaved, I have an idea of how they died and in the 9 year old's case, of things that happened after. Apparently his brothers made him wave at their sisters (open casket during the wake/lying in period) so the girls would scream and run away. Sounds morbid but they were all children and my nan remembered it fondly so she wasn't disturbed by it... don't know if their parents ever knew about it though!

When their mother died as an old lady her headstone says something along the lines of that she had "Gone to look after Jonny and Annie". Death always seems to be spoken of very openly in my family though, kids always go to funerals and it's fine for people to cry and seen to be sad. Maybe it's just my family though? Dh's family is definitely more reserved about those kinds of things.

My dd died of cot death 5 years ago.
I don't speak of her at all to anyone in rl. Not my husband ( her dad) my parents, his parents.
My fil once tried to talk about her and I asked him not to. They can discuss her all they like when I'm not there but I really really don't like to hear her name mentioned.
If people want to judge me as being emotionally crippled then that's fine but the mere mention of her sends my heart all over the place for hours and just reduces me to tears.
talking about her does not make me feel better, it makes me feel even worse.
So, it's not necessarily a "stiff upper lip" thing, and for the posters who imply the grieving people act as if the deceased never existed, that's a very offensive, callous thing to say. you have no idea of someone's emotional turmoil just because they choose to internalise their feelings.

Might not have been the best way but I think in the 50's and earlier they just didn't have the luxury, resources or time to deal with things the way we might do know. Death was unfortunately a much more common part of life, not even thinking of the wars and that people were generally much poorer and just looking to survive. Can't really compare.

Life was different then. A close relative was raped, age 5, by a workman at her home in 1954. She was made to feel as if it was her fault, she wasn't listened during the court case and she isn't sure what kind of sentence the man got if any.
It was never discussed by her family. Her father did nearly kill the man involved though, when he (unbelieveably) came to the house to 'apologise'! The rest of the family had to hold him back.

She ended up seeing a Psychiatrist as an older child and it has tainted her entire life. Apart from that one visit to the Psychiatrist she was never offered any counselling, just expected to 'get on with it'.

Her parents both worked and despite her terrible experience they still expected her to walk everywhere on her own as a very young child.

I hope things are different for children in that situation now.

OP, I'm sorry to read about your experience over your brother's death, I would say that your family's behaviour was quite normal for the times having listened to relatives discussing deaths in the family back then.

But even now, several of my colleagues have lost parents and even partners recently and it's not really discussed.. at work we tend to be guided by whether the bereaved colleague themselves talks about it.

Awful Latara and much more common than folk realise when they get nostalgic about the good old days. A close relative own mine also confided in me that she had been raped at the age of 10/11 on the way home from school by two men or older boys also in the 50's. It was never really dealt with, just hushed up to not cause trouble or shame as far as she recalled. She has been in and out of hospital for MH issues and depression, sometimes committed for ECT therapy her whole adult life. My mother tells similar shocking stories of her and her friends childhood.

What a terribly sad thread.

I hope you get the bench PuddingandPie1, it's a lovely idea, for you and Stephan.

Adsy = very sorry to hear about your DD.

The OP said that he and his father were expected to do the "stiff upper lip" thing - I don't suppose that he meant anyone to be offended by that.
Everyone deals with their grief differently though and you do what is right for you, as we all do.

So sorry to see the sad experiences on this thread. The "stiff upper lip" mentality was very damaging to ppl in the past.

My late FIL came from Warsaw and DH told me he never talked about his past. I know that he didn't trust or like ppl in uniform.

It wasn't until after he died that we found papers and cards which showed he had been in the French Resistance.

My Dad had major surgery when I was about 5. He'd been in bed for the year before it with gangrene. He went off to hospital, had his leg taken off, and then convalesced for a few weeks and then came home. He had a strange prosthetic leg called a pylon, which helped him get used to walking again. Then 2 years later, same thing happened with the other leg. After that, I wet the bed every night for weeks and had nightmares for absolutely months. I would be terrified and it took all my courage to get out of bed and go to my mum and dad - to be told it was a dream and go back to bed. I was utterly traumatised for years, but nothing was ever done to help me or my brother.

It was the norm then.

Also children weren't expected to feel grief - chances are the adults around you didn't actually take your grief seriously and you were never allowed to work through it. It turned into resentment and anger partly because it was never acknowledged.

I'm glad you've found peace about it now OP, but yes it's awful that it took you 50 years.