to think the poorest pensioners in the UK aren't actually that poor

[twistedsista]

The minimum amount a pensioner will get at the moment if they have made no provisions is 7714.2 pa tax free + free bus / train (depending on areas) + winter fuel allowances + warm home discount + free perscriptins + consesionry prices for many things etc and most bought homes when they were reasonable so they have minimal housing costs.

Compare this to a single person on nmw who could be paying 25 a week on bus travel, 130 a week on rent with no hope of buying. they have to pay tax and if they are under 45 they will never get the benefits that they are paying for pensionrs to have at the moment.

I'm not being ageist, just looking at the sums

It's hard for working women today to imagine just how different life was for young women during the 1960s and 1970s. Women could only get mortgages if they had a male guarantor (usually expected to be their father) so were far more dependant on having a husband. Most people married young because it was the only route to leave home unless you went into lodgings (where overnight guests and male visitors were not allowed). The vast majority of people (male or female) left school at 16 as university was only for the rich or the very top students. Women earned less than men and if it wasn't for the feminists we still would be.

Like Boomer has said, if you want things to change please don't blame the older generation but campaign for a fairer deal for everyone. Yes, older people have gained from rising property prices but if all pensioners were needing extra benefits on top of their pensions as well as needing social housing or residential care (without being able to pay towards it) it would cause the welfare state into a complete collapse.

It's an absolute disgrace that the biggest companies and richest people avoid paying full taxes, that bankers and CEOs of top companies still receive huge bonuses (even if big losses are made), that millionaires from overseas are buying up enormous swathes of property and that social housing is extremely limited. Its time to start blaming the right people (ineffective governments), not the over 60s!

There's a difference between blaming people and recognising needs / making cuts.

I doubt the Tories in anyway "blame" higher-rate taxpayers for anything, but still cut child benefit to them.

Again, "blame" is the language of divide and conquer.

You do realise don't you (all of you moaning about OAPs) that anyone over the age of 70 lived through WW2 or was born during it. Rationing went on until 1954. Now tell them they are lucky to be born when they were. I really am dismayed by all the selfish thoughts in here. If I went on about younger people on benefits with lots of chidren, and who spend their benefits on cigarettes, games machines, large dogs and drugs, then you would be saying that I am the one in the wrong.

It is ridiculous to clump all pensioners together when you look at their finances. You'd hope that a large amount of the population would be better off after 40 years of work and paying off their mortgage than the average recent graduate.

Chunder, they might get housing benefit but the sum to which they're entitled will be limited. As I said upthread, my mother ended her days in a tiny flat with barely room to swing a cat. OK so she didn't need more space, but it was pretty galling for her to have to give away a lifetime's possessions.

Anyone on a limited income in the private rental market is stuffed - pensioners aren't the exception.

I'm glad this thread has moved toward some kind of sanity away from the opinions of self flaggellating martyrs who insist that their parents are right to write blank cheques to the LA for care otherwise they are stealing from taxpayers.

It's not an either or situation. OP had a point. Taxpayers have a point.

Oops I should have posted that on a different but similar thread.

I find it worrying that instead of trying to get all those perks for every poor person, we as a country envy these things and would rather take what little pensioners and disabled people get. :(

bubbles 11. WOW you have really annoyed me and I don't anger easily. Generational apartheid - WTF!
I am a baby boomer and I am well aware that I am part of a very fortunate generation. My main political concern if asked would be youth unemployment.
I also worked hard when childcare, mat leave arrangements etc were very poor.
I have friends of varying ages.
How dare you put people in a box because of their age.
It seems to me on here that there is a lot of prejudice.
If there is conflict between a man and a woman the woman is automatically right- if there is conflict between an older woman and a younger woman the younger woman is always in the right.
I am fed up of the stereotyping and generalizations.

What's the point in means testing bus passes, winter fuel allowance etc, the administration for doing this would cost more than the few free bus passes to wealthy pensioners (who probably don't use it anyway).

I don't understand the envy of anyone who gets a pension - presumably they paid their national insurance contributions and worked all their life, can't they be given a break ffs?! I say that as a 'young' person.

What's the point in means testing bus passes, winter fuel allowance etc, the administration for doing this would cost more than the few free bus passes to wealthy pensioners (who probably don't use it anyway).

I don't understand the envy of anyone who gets a pension - presumably they paid their national insurance contributions and worked all their life, can't they be given a break ffs?! I say that as a 'young' person.

Linked to pension credits it would cost nothing.

Maybe as you grow older and realise these benefits will never exist for you and your quality of life is significantly reduced to provide them to others you will feel differently.

I don't understand how someone with 8+k tax free, free public transport, free council tax, free home to live in can't afford heat it. My gas is 800 a year for a small 2 bed house that I like waem.

No, but I do anticipate an enormous section of the baby boomer generation...ending their days in a much greater state of lonliness and isolation than they anticipate due to the refusal to have any debate about intergenerational issues now.

Or as is more normal parents will look after their children and children will look after their parents. It could be argued that this discriminates against people who do not have financial and practical inter generational support or who are victims of family breakdown. It limits social mobility.

However I'm sure Cameron and Osbourne are much happier when people get disgruntled about low income pensioners having too much money.

I own my own home - shoot me.

To buy it I saved for 10 years for the deposit and rented out the bedroom in my one bedroom flat for six years to be able to afford the mortgage, on which I paid 15% interest at one point.

I never got married - any long term relationships ended because I couldn't have children and the men went on to marry and have children.

Got osteoarthritis at 32 - spine, hips and knees, three hip replacements, the last of which resulted in me not being able to put any weight on my right leg at all so have had to use walking sticks/a walker. Worked for 43 years non stop from 17 to 60 when I was medically retired. For a large proportion of those years I was in severe pain every single day.

I've never claimed anything from the State - have always been self reliant but do receive old age pension.

So OP, would you like to swap your life for mine and my paid for home?

The figure quoted as the minimum pension by the OP is wrong. The current state pension is less than £6000 per year. The government have had to increase the basic pension rate because so many people had to claim extra pension credits or live on income support and it was very complicated to claim. The new, higher pension figure doesn't come into effect until 2016.

Many women don't get even the full basic pension at the moment as their national insurance contributions weren't high enough because they didnt earn enough to qualify (there wasn't affordable child care available and most jobs didn't cover childcare costs). I know several women who have a state pension entitlement of less than £20 a week! On that basis, some widowed pensioners really wouldn't be able to afford to heat more than one room during the winter months.

Ketchup

"there wasn't affordable child care available and most jobs didn't cover childcare costs"

I am not stupid enough to think that things have changed for women since the times you talk about but it really irks me when your generation make comments like this as if childcare is now "fully available and affordable" and pay covers childcare costs

you have no idea
this feminist inspired utopia all young women supposedly live in thanks to female baby boomers...............errrrr
oh forget it, I am not posting on this thread any more. It is just lots of baby boomers posting their personal circumstances and concluding "you dont know you are born you ungrateful people under 55 years old"

Bubbles. This is the government's fault, nobody else's.

or more likely

"you dont know you are born you ungrateful people under 55 years old"

"I am just off to collect my grandchild from school."

But there were no affordable nurseries. Most mothers did not go out to work. When I had my children there was no maternity leave. I had to leave my job in the October before my son was born in the January. My job was not kept open. My pension is not a full one because I did not work the required number of years. I really am glad you are not posting any more bubbles because you come across as a very jealous entitled person.

merrymouse

I don't think child care costs less now. The difference is that the government has increasingly provided benefits, tax breaks and subsidies to support two income families whereas 40 years ago it was possible to sack a woman when she got married, never mind pregnant.

This doesn't make childcare affordable, but as per my previous post, generally the gap is filled by grandparents because families tend to help each other out.

I can't help suspecting that all this mudslinging says more about specific family tiffs than real life.