to think the poorest pensioners in the UK aren't actually that poor

[twistedsista]

The minimum amount a pensioner will get at the moment if they have made no provisions is 7714.2 pa tax free + free bus / train (depending on areas) + winter fuel allowances + warm home discount + free perscriptins + consesionry prices for many things etc and most bought homes when they were reasonable so they have minimal housing costs.

Compare this to a single person on nmw who could be paying 25 a week on bus travel, 130 a week on rent with no hope of buying. they have to pay tax and if they are under 45 they will never get the benefits that they are paying for pensionrs to have at the moment.

I'm not being ageist, just looking at the sums

I have a LOT of sympathy for anyone embarking on their 'grown up' years these days. Jobs are not easy to get, keep, or expect reasonable terms and conditions from. Housing is expensive. BUT, as someone in their mid fifties, I get mightily pissed off with the attitude that we had it soooo much easier.
I married at 17 (I know, I know). I got sacked from my first job because I did not have the bus fare to get into work one day and phoned in sick. We rented a flat and 60% of our joint salary went on rent. We lived on sardines with mashed potatoes, anything that filled us up and was cheap.
We relocated 200 miles from 'home' to get better jobs and our first flat was so cold that when we woke up in the morning we could actually snap the bedspread (no quilts in those days).
We bought our first house. We saved up to buy every stick of furniture and never expected to have everything now - we had been married for 2 years before we started renting a tv(!), only had a phone when we had bought our first house and one car between us for 10 years.
Move on a bit and we are comfortable. Not rich, but with a nice house, wonderful family and no financial worries. I have a tiny pension, DH has a okay pension. I have worked for almost 40 years now, and by the time I retire, will have worked for 50 years. 50 years. I think I deserve a comfortable retirement.

Benefit wise, I got child benefit and I think DH got married mans allowance on his tax code. I worked even with babies. DH would come in from work at 5 and I would go out to work at 6. DH claimed dole money for 4 weeks.

I think the problem today is the pressure to have everything now ( and my children are guilty of that too, so not pointing fingers)! We DO have everything we want and need, but I would say it took us 30 years to get there!

Sorry for the essay, it just saddens me that it is assumed baby boomers have got it made. We did work for it you know. AND, I really do feel sorry for anyone starting out now,

I know what you mean My DH is 64 so he was a baby boomer. But he says things like apprenticeships back then had proper wages and prospects.
I know full well ppl didn't have it easy especilally women who had sweet FA rights in the workplace.

Still if younger/single people did what was suggested and kept moving around for work they wont be bearing the brunt of parent care later on.

Because they wont be living nearby.

Be careful what you wish for.

The point is not that it is easy to find work when you are 26. The point is that it is easier to find work at 26 than 76. Even Jane Fonda has osteoporosis.

The poorest pensioners do not own their own homes, though, so the picture is not that simple.

I do believe that pensioner's benefits should be means tested, though, as they are for the the rest of the population. There are plenty of baby boomers (like my parents) who ARE well off and have no need of free bus passes etc. And I think that makes struggling working adults feel bitter.

Darkest you go for jobs with a relocation package? You move into a bedsit somewhere you think you might find work more easily? Find a friends floor to sleep on? Find work with accommodation?

But please don't whinge at parents and the elderly. If you need money for relocating then do what you can to find it. You can't expect it to come to you.

I agree that benefits should be given according to need. However, free bus travel is only available outside peak hours so not much use if you are working. Also many old people aren't really that safe behind the wheel of a car and can't walk very far.

I suppose you could raise the age at which people get their bus pass or get ATOS to do bus pass assessments. But really, would you save that much money? My experience is that elderly people make use of buses because they need them and healthy, wealthy 65 year olds stick to their cars.

I haven't whinged at parents OR the elderly Im married to a booomer FFS Ive simply defended against the fact that you find this funny. Im not the one who used a grin emoticon .

My DH says that things were easier back then Because there were unions. In fact he was shop steward at the engineering firm where he worked.

unreal my 19 year old niece is currently looking for work......

unreal your posts are absolutely ridiculous now.

My parents often say that any job is better than the dole.

12/13 years ago I took that principle and ran with it and had a job in a sex chatline office with a nice little sideline in selling used underwear (wasn't really used Its surprising what you can do with out of date moisturiser.)

My Catholic DM would have had a fit and gaslighted me if she knew.

But ....hey You do what you can!!

Working conditions were better in those days IF you had a job and if you were a man. Up to the late 80 s they were still pinching our bottoms in the office and decent child and family benefits didn't come in until the 2000s.

Since we have had an influx of highly productive cheap migrant labour it is harder for the lower skilled workers, but again that's nothing new. I'm not denying it's hard, but you can't blame pensioners and parents, or immigrants. Campaign government instead.

My mum did not own her house so she paid rent on a council flat. The rent was £85.00 per week, she paid £70.00 per month council tax, £60 per week electricity, water charges, £ 12.00 per hour for a council home help service cleaner who came for 2 hours per week so that was £ 24 per week. She had no help at all because my dad had left a small widow's pension.
£340 rent
£70 council tax
£96 cleaner
£240 electricity
£746 per month plus water rates, home insurance, food, clothing

She got an additional pension because she was deaf from working as a waaf during the war in an artillery place. If it had not been for that she would have struggled. Not that I would have let her but some don't have a family to support.

Lots of pensioners are poor

unreal I agree Things I the workplace for women were shit. And AGAIN I haven't blamed anyone.

And discrimination doesn't just happen in the workplace. In the late 90s both DH and I were signing on.

We signed on on separate days. On one of my signings I was pulled to one side and made to sign a form saying I would consider part time work. DH was never given this form or made to sign it at all.

Many workers (me included) didn't get sick pay or holiday pay until the late 1990s. Ditto minimum wage.

I remember seeing jobs in the Job Centre in the late 90s that were 50p an hour £1.50 an hour £50 a week.

On the zero hour contracts ppl today aren't earning much more.

She got an additional pension because she was deaf from working as a waaf during the war in an artillery place. If it had not been for that she would have struggled. Not that I would have let her but some don't have a family to support.

Exactly.....and even less so if their family have had to move for work.

I'm not denying that zero hours contracts are more common, but working in catering we didn't have contracts at all. This was with independents and chains Pizza Express alike. Things are quiet or the boss's daughter fancies a job, you got no shifts.

It's shit - I have every sympathy.

OP Some pensioners are wealthy (and pay taxes), but others are among the poorest in Britain, even taking benefits into account.

Here is a summary from AgeUK www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/income-and-tax/living-on-a-low-income-in-later-life/:

" * 1 in 6 pensioners (1.8 million or 16% of pensioners in the UK) live in poverty, defined as 60% of median income after housing costs

• Pensioners are also the biggest group of people on the brink of poverty with 1.2 million on the edge

*Low income in retirement is often linked to earlier low pay, or time out of employment - for example, due to caring responsibilities, disability or unemployment

• Women, those age 80 to 84, single people living alone, private tenants, and Pakistani and Bangladeshi people are at greater risk of pensioner poverty "

Of course, other groups of people in Britain are poor, as well, and that is terrible. Using exactly the same criteria as AgeUK, the government says that 29% of children live in households with income of less than 60% of the median, and 22% of working age adults. www.gov.uk/government/collections/households-below-average-income-hbai--2

But all these people are EQUALLY POOR. They ALL have income from various sources, including benefits of less than 60% of the median income for the UK (after their housing costs have been paid) . It is simply not true to say that poor pensioners are somehow 'less poor' than others.

A few other points:

Most pensioners rely on government pensions/benefits for less than half of their income:
" In 2010-11, state benefits accounted for 43 per cent of pensioners’ incomes, occupational pensions made up 26 per cent, earnings 20 per cent, investment income 7 per cent, and personal pensions 4 per cent."

Increasing numbers of pensioners go on working:
" Since 1998-99, the fastest growing sources of income are earnings, which has doubled in this time, and personal pension income, which has trebled' [but is still only 4%].

Single pensioners have less income than pensioner couples, just like single women of working age:
"Older pensioners were more likely to be at the bottom of the income distributions, as were single female pensioners."

All from www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/223182/pi_series_1011.pdf

According to tax authorities (HMRC) average pension income 2013 was £11,600:
www.theguardian.com/money/2013/jun/05/retirement-income-less-working-wage

I have got what people would consider an absolutely shit job. Min wage monthly contract, backbreaking and a 2am finish. People get taken on and last a week then walk out as it's not what they expected and harder than they thought. Most of the people who walk out are young so we have ended up with 6 mothers where the hrs work for them. The latest lasted a week and said she didn't think she would have to wash up. One said it was too hard and the next day she had backache from standing up too long.

At the end of the day the hrs work for me, I could get a better job but I would have to use childcare and break my neck to do drop offs and pick ups. I don't like my job, it's hard graft but the hrs suit and I get paid making me better off than signing on

Something else which has got worse. A lot of companies used to pay a night premium years ago.

Why should pensioners be 'that poor'? It's a dreadful op because it suggests that older people should just put up and shut up because they are old and therefore of no use to society.

If we are lucky we will reach old age. When I am too old/ill to work I will be grateful for any benefits I'm sure..I probably won't feel well off though if I am on the equivalent of 7k a year. It's hardly the stuff of dreams is it?

Tbh the people I feel most sorry for are those in their late 50's or early just turned 60 on jsa who are single with no dc.
They are old enough to find getting employment difficult.
Women of 60 have been especially screwed as their retirement age was bumped considerably recently.
They have to survive on 71 ish pw week when a newly retired person gets some 50pw more.

Winter fuel allowance is paid in millions to ex- pats as well who have gone to live in warmer climates with cheaper fuel! Seems mad to me. I agree, it should be means tested.

I presume HM the Queen and Prince Phillip are entitled? And those living in multi million pound stately homes and London mansions.

Funny how they can't possible means test that but they cam means test child benefit which has been a universal benefit for much longer than wfa.

I think they should both be means tested.

My best friend earns 56,000 a year. Her husband earns 150,000 a year. Why should they get child benefit?
Me and DH earn 100,000 a year between us. We should not get CB.

There has to be some limit to benefits. The system was set up to provide those who could not work or find a job with enough to live on without being totally poverty stricken, as well as a state pension which people paid into while they worked- recognising that old people can become income poor.

It seems like the benefit system went mad! It became about an expectation that people could have a similar standard of living to many who worked long hours.

I work in a school in a deprived area and many parents and children on benefits expect to run cars- often large newish 4 wheel drives- have Sky TV, mobile phones each, PCs, ipads, gamesboys,holidays abroad, smoke, drink , named brand clothes. It is incredible. Then they will say they can't pay £3 towards a school trip.