to think the poorest pensioners in the UK aren't actually that poor

[twistedsista]

The minimum amount a pensioner will get at the moment if they have made no provisions is 7714.2 pa tax free + free bus / train (depending on areas) + winter fuel allowances + warm home discount + free perscriptins + consesionry prices for many things etc and most bought homes when they were reasonable so they have minimal housing costs.

Compare this to a single person on nmw who could be paying 25 a week on bus travel, 130 a week on rent with no hope of buying. they have to pay tax and if they are under 45 they will never get the benefits that they are paying for pensionrs to have at the moment.

I'm not being ageist, just looking at the sums

I'm interested in the figures of pensioners that are struggling.

If they don't own their own home and just have to live off the 8kish a year tax free then they will also get all their rent and council tax payer another 6k a year.

In my area the pensioners say they have never had it so good.

I know one set struggling but they were remortgaging their home in their 50s to buy new cars and go on cruises.

My parents are comfortable now in their retirement however it wasn't always that way. My dad worked a full time day job then worked a second job most nights and spent the other nights at college to improve his prospects. My mum stayed home to look after us but then also did childminding and worked at a local playgroup to bring in some money. They worked and saved for years while staying with parents to be able to afford their first home so they could get married. I was 11 before we had our first holiday abroad and that was a gite in France. First time I flew was on my honeymoon at 26. My parents spent every spare minute growing fruit and veg to save money, every penny was accounted for. As children we didn't do lots of different clubs etc. I don't know many people who these days would accept living in that manner. Is it that the poor pensioners have had it easier or is it that life and expectations are more expensive these days due to what they are.

The young people of today ill health or not won't have the option of retiring in their 60s. This is highly unlikely to change and has been known about for decades.

This isn't being agistst or grabby.

Of course there are poor pensioners, to suggest otherwise is a nonsense. However are they better provided for than those in a similar position who are of working age? Almost certainly, yes.

This kind of infighting between groups of poor people seems to overlook the important issues. The gap between the rich and the poor in the UK is widening. No one should be poor.

Very good jacks365, 7/10 but if you'd mentioned iPads and daily lattes from Starbucks you'd have scored higher.

Since my dad left school at 14 to go to work and retired at 65 will a young person of today who does a masters degree and starts working at 23 as my dd will do, work for any more years just because they don't retire in their 60's?

Hate all the pensioner bashing on MN.

Some of them live a very hand to mouth existence and there are plenty still working well into their 70s and beyond.

Well if you pretend that studying for years on end does not involve any work you could make that argument jacks. Although I expect like many young people (not all I accept) I'd have been happy to not do further education if employers had been willing to accept school leavers for most jobs with decent career prospects like they used to. Neither of my first two employers would have hired me without one.

Without a degree I mean.

That's the point though you can't compare like for like as life isn't the same it has changed.

Isn't this the rule of human nature though?

The burden is placed upon the strongest in society who are (or should be) the adults.

Families have it toughest because healthy adults are strongest. Children, ill people and the elderly are cared for. Historically it would have been by the adults of the family, these days as most things, the burden of care for the elderly is on the state. Therefore, unless you want to take in your elderly parents (I know many do) and relieve the state of their burden, you have to (as the strongest in society) shoulder it.

Seriously? Thousands of pensioners die from the cold every winter in Britain because they can't afford to heat their homes. Many have to choose between food and fuel. Young people can get off their fat arses and get a job/second job if things are that bad, the poorest pensioners are often in the worst health and don't have that option.

Yeah. They're rolling in it. Houses heated to 25C year round and bathing in champagne

That's a very strange title you have there. 'The poorest pensioners aren't that poor'. Rubbish. The very poorest of all ages are struggling to eat and put a roof over their heads. As they always have done. I think that's appalling in one of the richest countries of the world.

You probably meant to ask whether on average most pensioners aren't that poor, compared to both working age people and pensioners in the past, and i would probably agree there. Housing plays a large part, as do the cost of education and the paucity of jobs nowadays.

I'm glad for them. Now can working age people have the same benefits they had please. The rubbish government keeps putting out about credit crunch and the country can't afford this that or the other, is just that, rubbish. One of the richest countries in the world, remember: just that most wealth is in the hands of a few and that proportion has increased since todays pensioners were working.

And as for the paucity of jobs, we really do need to consider what kind of society we want when most jobs are done b? computers. An old tale, but truer now than ever and increasing as we speak. Personally i think we should simply halve the amount of time people expect to be working and double the number of jobs. While keeping wages where they are of course.

A pensioner can be anyone between the age of 65 and 100+. That's an awfully large portion of the population you are generalising about.

My PILs are not homeowners. They didn't retire early on fat pensions. FIL worked nights until giving up due to ill health in his early 70s.

I agree jacks, times have changed so you can't compare like with like. However the facts are financially speaking the elderly are as better off as a group than they've ever been or are likely to be in my lifetime at least. It is what it is, yes there are poor old folks but they are proportionally less than they were in the past or will be in the future.

This isn't actually about the poorest pensioners. They need as much help as anyone. It's another poor Generation Y thread querying non means tested benefits. Possibly a valid question but totally missold.

WottaMess has it.

Do MOST pensioners have enough to get by? Probably. And that's a good thing.

Do ALL pensioners have enough? No. And that's a bad thing.

Will today's young people face a different future? Undoubtedly. And that's an unavoidable thing.

Young people can get off their fat arses and get a job/second job if things are that bad

Ah yes, all those jobs just falling off trees.

Getting a job never has been so easy for young people with the advent of zero hour contracts. Although of course they may never actually earn any money!

I think you are correct
I think there is a MASSIVE conspiracy of silence on this whole issue. I acknowledge that SOME pensioners are very poor, and increasingly as the years go by SOME pensioners will, notwithstanding their financial and material wealth become increasingly isolated and lonely for various reasons.

However in general I think it is true that as a cohort they are extremely comfortable and well off compared with previous "pensioner" co-horts and I think that there is a massive wall of silence and defensiveness if anyone in society tries to discuss it.
Anyone on this thread who says "YABU, my grandma is poor" or "I worked hard and paid my taxes all my life, I deserve it" - is citing an individual circumstances which does not disprove the general fact that the over 55 /over 60s in society are extremely wealthy in a way which has a massive impact on younger generations for decades to come

Do pensioners get put on payment meters like the other poor do? If so they will be very very poor. No wonder they have to choose between heating and eating.

If the annual fuel bill is reasonable, council tax and rent are subsidised to a reasonable amount then that probably leaves them with 120 a week for food and other spends. Not a lot, but it's liveable with. Makes me think twice about paying tax though if that's what we do it for.

Poke a pensioner week, is it? What a nasty topic to be enjoying yourselves with. Shame on the lot of you.